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I searched this entire thread for the words "illegal immigration" and didn't find 'em, but surely it's gotta be an important factor here? A helluva lot of the c

by hugh3 15y ago

I searched this entire thread for the words "illegal immigration" and didn't find 'em, but surely it's gotta be an important factor here? A helluva lot of the carpenters I see around here are Mexican, and I'd be surprised if they were all in the US legally. If US-born carpenters are being forced to compete with under-the-table seriously-low-wages carpenters in the construction industry is there any wonder that it's an unattractive career path? In Australia right now, skilled tradesmen are making money hand over fist, and the skilled trades are rapidly becoming more prestigious than the lower end of white-collar work (see the Sydney Morning Herald's "Australia's Hottest Tradie" competition for more details...) But this will never happen in the US because there's an effectively infinite supply of semi-skilled workers being allowed in by an immigration policy which is highly restrictive for high-skilled workers (who leave a paper trail when they get hired) and practically unrestricted for low-skilled workers (who don't).

Ixiaus 15y ago
You would be surprised by both how many are legal and how many are illegal.
Lost_BiomedE 15y ago
Another factor in this is quality of work vs. how cheap it can be done. If the people they are doing the work for can't tell the difference between a well built house and a cheap one or between a well cooked meal and one thrown together, those who are skilled will be pushed out or forced to work at low quality and low pay.
- spitfire 15y ago
  This happens all the time in the technology industry... It's a constant struggle and for the most part the only way to deal with it is through marketing. See luxury brands as examples. So we need premium carpenters/coders/electricians.
uxp 15y ago
> If US-born carpenters are being forced to compete with under-the-table seriously-low-wages carpenters in the construction industry is there any wonder that it's an unattractive career path? If immigrant (legal and illegal) are undercutting the industry by charging pennies for jobs that regularly cost a hundred per hour, then that is a problem with the industry, not with the unskilled immigrants. I went to a vocational school to learn to be a wrist-watch repairman. I'm certified by both Swiss and American organizations. So why am I looking to change career paths after 8 years in the business? There's not enough people that have higher end watches that need repairing to justify doing this full time for the rest of my life. There's an Asian made movement out in the wild that I can buy 200 of at $1.50 each, which also powers 50% of all simple non-swiss watches in the world. This thing is plastic, heat pressed together, uses plastic form-injected gears, and does not have a single replaceable part on it. Got a little dirt in the gears? Replace it. Stem is broken? Replace it. In regards to high end companies, it took me 6 years to convince a Swiss company that I would be a good asset to help with their after-sales-service and obtain a spare parts account with them. If the government is worried about Skilled Labor disappearing, then someone needs to provide incentive to companies to develop standards that allow laborers to get parts accounts with them, as well as have manufacturers of product create products that are repairable. This is obviously a multi-faceted problem.

by hugh3 15y ago

Ixiaus 15y ago

You would be surprised by both how many are legal and how many are illegal.

Lost_BiomedE 15y ago

Another factor in this is quality of work vs. how cheap it can be done. If the people they are doing the work for can't tell the difference between a well built house and a cheap one or between a well cooked meal and one thrown together, those who are skilled will be pushed out or forced to work at low quality and low pay.

spitfire 15y ago
This happens all the time in the technology industry... It's a constant struggle and for the most part the only way to deal with it is through marketing. See luxury brands as examples. So we need premium carpenters/coders/electricians.

uxp 15y ago

> If US-born carpenters are being forced to compete with under-the-table seriously-low-wages carpenters in the construction industry is there any wonder that it's an unattractive career path? If immigrant (legal and illegal) are undercutting the industry by charging pennies for jobs that regularly cost a hundred per hour, then that is a problem with the industry, not with the unskilled immigrants. I went to a vocational school to learn to be a wrist-watch repairman. I'm certified by both Swiss and American organizations. So why am I looking to change career paths after 8 years in the business? There's not enough people that have higher end watches that need repairing to justify doing this full time for the rest of my life. There's an Asian made movement out in the wild that I can buy 200 of at $1.50 each, which also powers 50% of all simple non-swiss watches in the world. This thing is plastic, heat pressed together, uses plastic form-injected gears, and does not have a single replaceable part on it. Got a little dirt in the gears? Replace it. Stem is broken? Replace it. In regards to high end companies, it took me 6 years to convince a Swiss company that I would be a good asset to help with their after-sales-service and obtain a spare parts account with them. If the government is worried about Skilled Labor disappearing, then someone needs to provide incentive to companies to develop standards that allow laborers to get parts accounts with them, as well as have manufacturers of product create products that are repairable. This is obviously a multi-faceted problem.