3 ms·

I read that article, and it doesn't seem like some grand revelation. It even explains in the article that people with Down's syndrome are more susceptible to re

I read that article, and it doesn't seem like some grand revelation. It even explains in the article that people with Down's syndrome are more susceptible to respiratory viruses (the person discussed in the beginning of the article got hospitalized with pneumonia multiple times and got put on a ventilator due to it years before COVID pandemic was even a thing). So it seems to be less about something special about Down's syndrome that makes COVID more deadly to someone with Down's, but that it is just a subset of people who tend to have increased severity of respiratory infections in general. And COVID, being a somewhat respiratory virus, naturally hits those people harder than those without extra susceptibility to respiratory viruses.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
I read that article, and it doesn't seem like some grand revelation. It even explains in the article that people with Down's syndrome are more susceptible to respiratory viruses What would be vastly more interesting is if someone, somewhere with some medical expertise was wondering why people with Down's Syndrome are, in fact, dying at high rates while people with Cystic Fibrosis -- another genetic disorder and infamous for killing people at young ages via respiratory infection -- are not: Does cystic fibrosis constitute an advantage in COVID-19 infection? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7537774/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7537774/ Edit: And I say it would be vastly more interesting because of the potential to cast light on the pathology of the disease and thereby cast light on how to treat it effectively.
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  People with CF are probably ridiculously careful and likely almost totally isolating themselves right now. Someone with Downs isn't necessarily as able to make accurate risk calculations and may find themselves engaging in riskier behavior. Add to that the fact that many adults with Downs may live in community group homes alongside others with mental health concerns (staff coming in and out - vector of infection), whereas those with CF may be less likely to do so, as (unfortunately in a human sense, fortunately in the sense of comparing with prior decades and the progress of treatment) their average life expectancy in the United States is under 40 y/o and they may be able to isolate with retired adult parents or work from home.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    I have a diagnosis of atypical Cystic Fibrosis as does my oldest son. I'm pretty confident we had covid-19 back in March and my respiratory problems got better, not worse. It felt like having bad anemia. The impact it has on the blood was a big deal but it did not seem to hit my respiratory system hard. If anything, it appeared to have some beneficial side effects for some longstanding issues. So I think your quick and dirty dismissal of an important biological difference is specious.
    - phobosanomaly 6y ago
      I'm happy for you guys. God knows I derive no satisfaction from people being ill. You accuse me of being specious. Good lord, if only that was the nicest thing people accused me of I would be thrilled. It might be interesting to get an antibody test to confirm that it actually was SARS-CoV-2? Which organ system is primarily affected by your CFTR mutation? I quickly checked the lit and I gather Atypical CF can mainly affect respiratory, gastrointestinal, endocrine and metabolic, or genitourinary systems and is a little different in this way than classic CF, but you probably know more about it than I do. Do you guys have a pretty rough history of respiratory infections, or do you see it manifest primarily elsewhere? Are you guys on prophylactic antibiotics for chronic pulmonary infection? What were the beneficial side effects? Curious to hear your hypothesis as to how CFTR mutations could lend an advantage to patients with COVID? I haven't got any ideas. Were you guys much, much more cautious with isolation? Do you work in the community, or were you very cautious about isolation? Super curious to learn more. Edit: I looked at the paper and behavior was cited as a possible key factor. "...typical behavior in patients with CF, who might wear protective masks and avoid contact with sick people..." Another idea they floated was disruption of IL-6 signaling, which they didn't figure would totally mask (ba dum tss) the respiratory effects of the virus, but might knock it down a bit. Iono, small sample size too. There doesn't seem to be much data as to whether or not CF folks have any actual biological protections or if they're not just being more cautious, but I found a couple of papers that hypothesize potential mechanisms: Peckham, D., McDermott, M.F., Savic, S. et al. COVID-19 meets Cystic Fibrosis: for better or worse?. Genes Immun 21, 260–262 (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41435-020-0103-y https://doi.org/10.1038/s41435-020-0103-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41435-020-0103-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41435-020-0103-y SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) and cystic fibrosis. Bruce A. Stanton, Thomas H. Hampton, and Alix Ashare. American Journal of Physiology-Lung Cellular and Molecular Physiology 2020 319:3, L408-L415 https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajplung.00225.2020 https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajplung.002... Hope you find them interesting. Edit Edit: Based on your screen name, and our previous butting-heads over bullying vs. character building on another thread, I'm reminded of the classic Gary Larson/Far Side cartoon with Ed's Dingo Farm adjacent to Doreen's Nursery, and the caption 'Trouble Brewing.' An absolute classic. I'm perfectly willing to embrace the character archetype of Ed in this hypothetical cartoon situation, although I have yet to be graced with ownership of a dingo farm.
grumple 6y ago
> I read that article, and it doesn't seem like some grand revelation. Does every article of interest have to be some grand revelation? Science is all about incremental gains, with very rare leaps. Part of the why was very interesting here imo: > But genetics may also make them particularly susceptible to SARS-CoV-2, the pandemic coronavirus. They have three copies of a gene on chromosome 21, TMPRSS2, which codes for an enzyme that the virus hijacks to help it enter human cells. The TMPRSS2 enzyme cleaves the spike protein that studs the virus’ surface, launching a series of steps that allows the virus to invade the host cell. > Cells from people with DS typically express 1.6 times more TMPRSS2 than those from people without the condition This highlights why those with down syndrome are even more susceptible than those vulnerable groups you mentioned.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
sundvor 6y ago
Nonetheless, it's perhaps a good call out to be mindful of the vulnerable in our society. It's easily forgotten by the many selfish who can't see past their own perceived invulnerability to the "China virus" (paraphrasing how I perceive their attitudes into those quote marks here). As a parent I would be absolutely devastated if my child had Downs and was killed(#) because of the poor behaviours at display in society. (# Speaking as someone living in Australia where appropriate measures were eventually taken to protect everyone; my son has a different disability which impacts him, and us, greatly, so perhaps I empathize stronger for that reason. My opinion is that not taking easy preemptive measures to stop the spread is akin to reckless endangerment with completely needless death being the outcome. Thus "killed".).
andred14 6y ago
exactly just more propaganda to push the so called "pandemic" even though many countries are set to have less deaths this year than previous years. How can that be if there is a net new virus and emergency?

DoreenMichele 6y ago

I read that article, and it doesn't seem like some grand revelation. It even explains in the article that people with Down's syndrome are more susceptible to respiratory viruses What would be vastly more interesting is if someone, somewhere with some medical expertise was wondering why people with Down's Syndrome are, in fact, dying at high rates while people with Cystic Fibrosis -- another genetic disorder and infamous for killing people at young ages via respiratory infection -- are not: Does cystic fibrosis constitute an advantage in COVID-19 infection? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7537774/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7537774/ Edit: And I say it would be vastly more interesting because of the potential to cast light on the pathology of the disease and thereby cast light on how to treat it effectively.

phobosanomaly 6y ago
People with CF are probably ridiculously careful and likely almost totally isolating themselves right now. Someone with Downs isn't necessarily as able to make accurate risk calculations and may find themselves engaging in riskier behavior. Add to that the fact that many adults with Downs may live in community group homes alongside others with mental health concerns (staff coming in and out - vector of infection), whereas those with CF may be less likely to do so, as (unfortunately in a human sense, fortunately in the sense of comparing with prior decades and the progress of treatment) their average life expectancy in the United States is under 40 y/o and they may be able to isolate with retired adult parents or work from home.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  I have a diagnosis of atypical Cystic Fibrosis as does my oldest son. I'm pretty confident we had covid-19 back in March and my respiratory problems got better, not worse. It felt like having bad anemia. The impact it has on the blood was a big deal but it did not seem to hit my respiratory system hard. If anything, it appeared to have some beneficial side effects for some longstanding issues. So I think your quick and dirty dismissal of an important biological difference is specious.
  - phobosanomaly 6y ago
    I'm happy for you guys. God knows I derive no satisfaction from people being ill. You accuse me of being specious. Good lord, if only that was the nicest thing people accused me of I would be thrilled. It might be interesting to get an antibody test to confirm that it actually was SARS-CoV-2? Which organ system is primarily affected by your CFTR mutation? I quickly checked the lit and I gather Atypical CF can mainly affect respiratory, gastrointestinal, endocrine and metabolic, or genitourinary systems and is a little different in this way than classic CF, but you probably know more about it than I do. Do you guys have a pretty rough history of respiratory infections, or do you see it manifest primarily elsewhere? Are you guys on prophylactic antibiotics for chronic pulmonary infection? What were the beneficial side effects? Curious to hear your hypothesis as to how CFTR mutations could lend an advantage to patients with COVID? I haven't got any ideas. Were you guys much, much more cautious with isolation? Do you work in the community, or were you very cautious about isolation? Super curious to learn more. Edit: I looked at the paper and behavior was cited as a possible key factor. "...typical behavior in patients with CF, who might wear protective masks and avoid contact with sick people..." Another idea they floated was disruption of IL-6 signaling, which they didn't figure would totally mask (ba dum tss) the respiratory effects of the virus, but might knock it down a bit. Iono, small sample size too. There doesn't seem to be much data as to whether or not CF folks have any actual biological protections or if they're not just being more cautious, but I found a couple of papers that hypothesize potential mechanisms: Peckham, D., McDermott, M.F., Savic, S. et al. COVID-19 meets Cystic Fibrosis: for better or worse?. Genes Immun 21, 260–262 (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41435-020-0103-y https://doi.org/10.1038/s41435-020-0103-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41435-020-0103-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41435-020-0103-y SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) and cystic fibrosis. Bruce A. Stanton, Thomas H. Hampton, and Alix Ashare. American Journal of Physiology-Lung Cellular and Molecular Physiology 2020 319:3, L408-L415 https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajplung.00225.2020 https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajplung.002... Hope you find them interesting. Edit Edit: Based on your screen name, and our previous butting-heads over bullying vs. character building on another thread, I'm reminded of the classic Gary Larson/Far Side cartoon with Ed's Dingo Farm adjacent to Doreen's Nursery, and the caption 'Trouble Brewing.' An absolute classic. I'm perfectly willing to embrace the character archetype of Ed in this hypothetical cartoon situation, although I have yet to be graced with ownership of a dingo farm.

grumple 6y ago

> I read that article, and it doesn't seem like some grand revelation. Does every article of interest have to be some grand revelation? Science is all about incremental gains, with very rare leaps. Part of the why was very interesting here imo: > But genetics may also make them particularly susceptible to SARS-CoV-2, the pandemic coronavirus. They have three copies of a gene on chromosome 21, TMPRSS2, which codes for an enzyme that the virus hijacks to help it enter human cells. The TMPRSS2 enzyme cleaves the spike protein that studs the virus’ surface, launching a series of steps that allows the virus to invade the host cell. > Cells from people with DS typically express 1.6 times more TMPRSS2 than those from people without the condition This highlights why those with down syndrome are even more susceptible than those vulnerable groups you mentioned.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

sundvor 6y ago

Nonetheless, it's perhaps a good call out to be mindful of the vulnerable in our society. It's easily forgotten by the many selfish who can't see past their own perceived invulnerability to the "China virus" (paraphrasing how I perceive their attitudes into those quote marks here). As a parent I would be absolutely devastated if my child had Downs and was killed(#) because of the poor behaviours at display in society. (# Speaking as someone living in Australia where appropriate measures were eventually taken to protect everyone; my son has a different disability which impacts him, and us, greatly, so perhaps I empathize stronger for that reason. My opinion is that not taking easy preemptive measures to stop the spread is akin to reckless endangerment with completely needless death being the outcome. Thus "killed".).

andred14 6y ago

exactly just more propaganda to push the so called "pandemic" even though many countries are set to have less deaths this year than previous years. How can that be if there is a net new virus and emergency?