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Just because CorporationX says “don’t worry about it we got you bruh” doesn’t mean technologists - people who actively work with technology and write software -

Just because CorporationX says “don’t worry about it we got you bruh” doesn’t mean technologists - people who actively work with technology and write software - should be excused for just throwing up their hands and saying “it’s just ducking magic I don’t know how it works”. I’m not talking about understanding it to the level of being able to contribute a patch to the project. I’m talking about understanding that containers are inherently tied to the kernel, and thus are limited to running software written for the same kernel as the host running the container. It isn’t rocket science. I literally explained it in one sentence, and I’ve never used docker in my life. This is along the same level of knowledge as “no, you can just take an iPhone app and run it on android” or “no you can’t just take a SQLServer query and run it on anything that vaguely knows “SQL”.

haswell 6y ago
> Just because CorporationX says “don’t worry about it we got you bruh” doesn’t mean technologists - people who actively work with technology and write software - should be excused for just throwing up their hands and saying “it’s just ducking magic I don’t know how it works”. Entire industries are built on the premise that "don't worry about it, we got you". I'm not saying that it's appropriate to be completely blind/unaware of what you're using, but there's a line somewhere that's surprisingly difficult to draw in 2020. I don't think anyone would argue that learning more is a bad thing. But the more salient point is that for many, it's just not necessary. If you're doing work that requires a deeper knowledge of the thing, then of course you should learn it. If you're not doing work that requires this knowledge, it'd be a waste of time, the most precious commodity available to us. Others have made the comparison to learning assembly. Useful? sure. Necessary in 2020? Usually not. > It isn’t rocket science. I literally explained it in one sentence, and I’ve never used docker in my life. This is what you said: > ... if docker ran “natively” it’d mean using kernel hooks provided by xnu, which means you’d be able to run another instance of macOS in a container. Not only does this tell the reader nothing practical about how Docker actually works, it doesn't even address the parent comment in a useful/informative way. You followed this up with a statement that is a borderline personal attack on the parent comment. I mean this as constructively as possible, but you need to work on your delivery, and ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish with these comments. So far, they've been unhelpful and borderline abusive.
- diveanon 6y ago
  Leading by example. You have a lot more patience than I do, unfortunately I think this person just wants to be mad.
- stephenr 6y ago
  > This is what you said: The “one sentence” I was referring to is right above the bit you quoted: > I’m talking about understanding that containers are inherently tied to the kernel, and thus are limited to running software written for the same kernel as the host running the container.
  - haswell 6y ago
    You've lost me. This sentence does not explain how Docker, or containers work. It explains one aspect/limitation related to the execution of code in a container, but does not foster a deeper understanding of container architecture for the uninformed reader, and is actually somewhat misleading considering Docker's use of a VM behind the scenes in some situations (in which case the "host running the container" is technically the VM, not the user's PC). I sense that you have useful knowledge to share. I'm afraid you've missed the mark. Instead of spreading vitriol and asking why everyone around you is so dumb, focus that energy on sharing that knowledge!
    - stephenr 6y ago
      > considering Docker's use of a VM behind the scenes in some situations (in which case the "host running the container" is technically the VM, not the user's PC). That is exactly the point. If you want to run Linux binaries you need a Linux container. On windows or macOS that means a Linux vm. If you want to run windows binaries you need a windows container. Conversely if you had a macOS container you’d only be able to run macOS binaries. This is my point. It’s not a hard concept to understand. I’m not asking people to learn about cgroups or Chroots or network namespaces or any of that.
      - geofft 6y ago
geofft 6y ago
> “no you can’t just take a SQLServer query and run it on anything that vaguely knows “SQL”. Not with that attitude you can't. https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/want-more-postgresql-you-just-might-like-babelfish/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/want-more-postgresql... The world depends on people who don't take "no you can't" for an answer.

haswell 6y ago

> Just because CorporationX says “don’t worry about it we got you bruh” doesn’t mean technologists - people who actively work with technology and write software - should be excused for just throwing up their hands and saying “it’s just ducking magic I don’t know how it works”. Entire industries are built on the premise that "don't worry about it, we got you". I'm not saying that it's appropriate to be completely blind/unaware of what you're using, but there's a line somewhere that's surprisingly difficult to draw in 2020. I don't think anyone would argue that learning more is a bad thing. But the more salient point is that for many, it's just not necessary. If you're doing work that requires a deeper knowledge of the thing, then of course you should learn it. If you're not doing work that requires this knowledge, it'd be a waste of time, the most precious commodity available to us. Others have made the comparison to learning assembly. Useful? sure. Necessary in 2020? Usually not. > It isn’t rocket science. I literally explained it in one sentence, and I’ve never used docker in my life. This is what you said: > ... if docker ran “natively” it’d mean using kernel hooks provided by xnu, which means you’d be able to run another instance of macOS in a container. Not only does this tell the reader nothing practical about how Docker actually works, it doesn't even address the parent comment in a useful/informative way. You followed this up with a statement that is a borderline personal attack on the parent comment. I mean this as constructively as possible, but you need to work on your delivery, and ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish with these comments. So far, they've been unhelpful and borderline abusive.

diveanon 6y ago
Leading by example. You have a lot more patience than I do, unfortunately I think this person just wants to be mad.
stephenr 6y ago
> This is what you said: The “one sentence” I was referring to is right above the bit you quoted: > I’m talking about understanding that containers are inherently tied to the kernel, and thus are limited to running software written for the same kernel as the host running the container.
- haswell 6y ago
  You've lost me. This sentence does not explain how Docker, or containers work. It explains one aspect/limitation related to the execution of code in a container, but does not foster a deeper understanding of container architecture for the uninformed reader, and is actually somewhat misleading considering Docker's use of a VM behind the scenes in some situations (in which case the "host running the container" is technically the VM, not the user's PC). I sense that you have useful knowledge to share. I'm afraid you've missed the mark. Instead of spreading vitriol and asking why everyone around you is so dumb, focus that energy on sharing that knowledge!
  - stephenr 6y ago
    > considering Docker's use of a VM behind the scenes in some situations (in which case the "host running the container" is technically the VM, not the user's PC). That is exactly the point. If you want to run Linux binaries you need a Linux container. On windows or macOS that means a Linux vm. If you want to run windows binaries you need a windows container. Conversely if you had a macOS container you’d only be able to run macOS binaries. This is my point. It’s not a hard concept to understand. I’m not asking people to learn about cgroups or Chroots or network namespaces or any of that.
    - geofft 6y ago

geofft 6y ago

> “no you can’t just take a SQLServer query and run it on anything that vaguely knows “SQL”. Not with that attitude you can't. https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/want-more-postgresql-you-just-might-like-babelfish/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/want-more-postgresql... The world depends on people who don't take "no you can't" for an answer.