11 ms·

The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

93 points by mayiplease 6y ago

brundolf 6y ago
I'm in my late 20s, and already starting to feel some anxiety around the nearing conclusion of what could be called my "youth". But my therapist, in his forties, has experienced (and relayed to me) the "life begins at 40" philosophy (I didn't actually realize it was something other people said until I saw this article). It's not just wishful thinking for him: he felt that he didn't really figure out who he was, didn't really start self-actualizing en force before 40. Having known him a few years, it's clear to me that he genuinely has a very balanced and happy life, one with a family that he loves but also with his own goals and small pleasures, his own meaningful friendships, etc. So I guess: I would tend to agree that the midlife crisis is a trap constructed by our western culture, and one that it's very possible to simply pass by. I think you just have to never stop working on yourself and asking (and listening to) what your needs are. Keep a balanced life of relationships, and pursuits, and self-care, and - yes - some accomplishments too. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Don't get complacent, but don't burn out either. Be in it for the long haul.
- emerged 6y ago
  I’m about to turn 40 and have never felt less in crisis. Although I have never had any fear of my own mortality which could be what drives the crisis for many people. I also don’t tend to care much about what I’m “supposed” to do in life vs what I want to do.
  - brundolf 6y ago
    Historically I've taken the things "I want to do" and turned them into things "I'm supposed to do", and in the process built up a lot of stress over them. But that's something I've been working on changing, mainly via therapy :)
  - tayo42 6y ago
    Curious if your hobbies include anything physical? Turned 30 recently and I feel like there's a good chance I won't do what I want in sports. Not so much about mortality but feeling your self not be as athletic as you have sucks and it only gets worse.
    - souprock 6y ago
      Physical troubles lead to being not athletic, which leads to mortality. For example: a bad knee joint prevents most exercise, leading to obesity and then onward to diabetes and heart failure. Physical activity sometimes causes those physical troubles. Injury can turn an athlete into very much not an athlete.
    - emerged 6y ago
      I’m in better shape than I’ve ever been. Lots of cardio and a decent amount of lifting.
  - contingencies 6y ago
    I'm approaching 40 and in some ways have never felt more in crisis. Partly this is because having assets means exposure to new forms of risk. Major business or life decisions require days of effort over periods of weeks because the complexity and stakes now cross scope and potentiality boundaries that are unsettling at best and downright scary if not tackled in a structured fashion. In short, while I now have better tools, resources, and experience there is nobody to delegate the most critical decision making to, the stakes are vastly increased and the results don't just affect me anymore, therefore any execution what Bezos calls a 'type 1 decision' (effectively irreversible) must now be extremely well considered. Things that help: supportive investors, good lawyers, good doctors, the maintenance of long term friendships completely outside of work and family circles, family, exercise, nature.
- yters 6y ago
  Plato seems to have shared this view. He said one shouldn't engage in philosophy, life's most important pursuit, until one turns 40.
  - kkoncevicius 6y ago
    Interestingly same suggestion is found in Kabbalah: in order to study it you have to be above 40 years old, expert in Talmud, and expert in Jewish law.
    - grammarisking 6y ago
      40 years is also a significant age within Islam, whereby a person usually reaches their prime. Explicitly mentioned in this verse for example: "We have commanded people to honour their parents. Their mothers bore them in hardship and delivered them in hardship. Their ˹period of˺ bearing and weaning is thirty months. In time, when the child reaches their prime at the age of forty, they pray, “My Lord! Inspire me to ˹always˺ be thankful for Your favours which You blessed me and my parents with, and to do good deeds that please You. And instil righteousness in my offspring. I truly repent to You, and I truly submit ˹to Your Will˺.”[1] [1]https://quran.com/46/15 https://quran.com/46/15
      - selimthegrim 6y ago
        Is that why my mom told me not to get married until 40?
- kkoncevicius 6y ago
  That might also be related to the occupation of your therapist - being, well, a therapist. Seems like almost everyone would choose an older person as their therapist; and conversely, hardly anyone, at, say 40 years old, would go see a 20 year old therapist. So their career really start taking off at maybe 40 and it steadily climbs up.
  - germinalphrase 6y ago
    My wife is a therapist. All the therapists in her office are - always - busy, even if they’re 22. People seek all kinds of qualities in a therapist. “Older and wiser” is not a ubiquitous appeal.
    - kkoncevicius 6y ago
      Nice coincidence - my wife is also a therapist. But to get there, in my country, you need a lot of work and training, you cannot really be a 22-year old therapists. First you have to finish psychology (ages from 18 to 22), then finish Master's degree in psychology (22 to 24) and then another 6 years (24-30) for psychodynamic psychotherapy training coupled with regular therapy for yourself under a more experience advisor. And finally after that you can start calling yourself a psychotherapist. Here at 22 you can be a psychologist, which is a different thing. They have a lot of work - intelligence tests, emotional support, advice about social stress. But they don't do therapy.
      - germinalphrase 6y ago
        Your can become a therapist here (Minnesota in USA) with 4 years (undergraduate bachelors degree) plus 2 years Masters degree (for example, social work or marriage and family counseling). There are - of course - higher levels of training and certification, but that gets you in front of people and diagnosing.
  - brundolf 6y ago
    Maybe, though I don't think he's the type who sees his career as the first or second most important thing in his life
- hinkley 6y ago
  As my friend’s parents put it, on the subject of adventures: At 40 you have the means to do many things, and the health to still do them. I think it does require keeping an inventory of dreams and assets, if-this-then-that style, but I don’t think that has the form of a midlife crisis. Those are less calculated in nature and manner.
- nonbirithm 6y ago
  As someone who is not yet 30 and is naive to the mindset of a 40-year-old, I get the impression that some people have it figured out sooner than others. Or if not having "the" thing figured out, have something at all figured out. This is dangerous for me because my mindset is that if I'm not spending most of my time on something, I will not be able to believe I'm "taking it seriously." From past experience, the end results of not spending enough time on what I did say as much. It is hard for me to leave my tunnel vision and see other things. (I have evidence this can be partially explained by a mental health diagnosis, but it isn't an excuse.) As typical, this is probably amplified by social media. Look at people's Twitter bios and look at how many describing words they use. Artist. Musician. Writer. Livestreamer. Some of these people got started when they were not even teenagers. As a result it's difficult not to feel as if you haven't found the words you'd be comfortable putting in your own bio. Why label yourself as such and such if you don't feel like you deserve it yet? (At least not to the extent that you see people's best selves being portrayed in their feeds.) But of course, ignoring comparisons to others, if those people found themselves there at some point, there would probablybe no reason not to write those words describing themselves. I end up believing I can only "find myself there" by deliberate action, not casually following a passion until you happen to arrive where you want. Everybody says memorable accomplishments require hard work.
  - brundolf 6y ago
    I think you're being too hard on yourself, and if I may say, I think therapy could help you work some of this out (fwiw I believe nearly every person on the planet could benefit from at least a little therapy). Here's one way to try reframing it for now: I see the point of life as maximizing happiness for myself and others. So if I'm setting rigorous expectations for myself that don't actually contribute to that purpose in any way, and in fact partly sabotage it by making me miserable, there's no logical reason to hold those expectations in the first place. What do you or anyone else gain from "deserving" to put titles for yourself in your Twitter bio? Do those activities if they make you happy; if they don't, then don't waste energy on them. And certainly don't do them just to say that you did.
- UncleOxidant 6y ago
  Maybe your therapist can say life begins at 40 because for a therapist their career starts kicking into high gear at that point and really just keeps going upward until retirement. For a software developer your career can start heading downhill even before 40 - age seems to have no advantage (with regard to career stability) for software developers like it does for therapists, doctors and lawyers.
  - wpietri 6y ago
    It doesn't? There are all sorts of things I think I do better now.
    - UncleOxidant 6y ago
      Oh, definitely same here (mid 50s) - lots of things I know and do better now than I did in my 20s. But we're not valued the same by industry.
  - africanboy 6y ago
    I am a software developer, my career had its best moments when I was in my 20s, but at 43 I am making more money with less effort and more enjoyment than all the past 20 years combined.
    - x87678r 6y ago
      You're lucky, my best moments were in my 20s, my best paid were 30s, and now its just downhill everywhere. :)
- vmception 6y ago
  Look, if you suddenly get a new interest that is pretty flashy and you also have a cohesive family unit and kids, people will say you have a midlife crisis. If you don't, you are just cool guy successful enough to do your own thing. That's it.
- africanboy 6y ago
  > life begins at 40 Can confirm! But not in the way people usually think, being younger is awesome while being 40 is not as much. But I am completely self aware and don't think anymore that I am missing something like I did before. It doesn't really has to do with 40 as a number, it has to do with the moment one starts accepting himself and lives life the way it was supposed to be lived. Of course things change with age, but as someone that still is a night owl and still sleeps like a baby and can't easily wake up early in the morning, there is also the fact that you get treated like an adult with their own personality and accepted for that (or not accepted but you learned to not care that much and to move on) Daily activities are boring compared to what I did not long ago, but they are also more fulfilling and I spend most of my time with people I've been knowing for a long time, that I trust and love and that I can count on. So, if you ask me, middle life crisis was worse at 30 than at 40. When I'll be 50 I'll know more, but until now everything has been better in terms of accepting those things that would depress me or make me angry 10 years ago.
- SoSoRoCoCo 6y ago
  > "life begins at 40" As someone who is mid-50's, everything turned around at 40. Health, physique (was at the gym 4 days a week), job (quit a loathed job and found one I liked), relationship (got a well-needed divorce). I feel like I wasted my 20's being anxious and my 30's being married to someone I didn't love.
beepboopbeep 6y ago
I have a personal theory that we enter into a "crisis" of some sort roughly every 5 years. Essentially 1-2 years of definition/growth/change, 2 years-ish of normalcy post change, 1-2 years of redefinition as things become old and others become new/interesting. A perpetual cycle of shifting identity as we change internally and externally. I think it's a good thing to have and understand, but can be overwhelming as well. I have zero evidence of this, it's just kind of based on my own observations. It's helped me to not be so hard on my self though when I find my tastes, interests, and identity changing over time.
- Swizec 6y ago
  It’s the many lives theory! Taked about 7 years to focus on a thing effectively, leading to roughly 11 lives for most of us. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-09-02 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-09-02
  - beepboopbeep 6y ago
    This is a great perspective on it, thank you! I'll be sending this around to a few folks
- anonymouse008 6y ago
  You could probably extrapolate the infant, child, adolescent, and adult's growth and development model (with hormone increases and decreases) to find evidence. I think your hunch is pretty cool and spot on for my experience as well. Surely, too, do external events either speed up or slow down some parts - but the core idea of new stage change, stasis, then redefinition could be worth exploring.
- the_cat_kittles 6y ago
  absolutely. the daily cycle, the weekly cycle, the quarterly cycle, the yearly cycle, and the 5-10 year cycle. i also have nothing but my own anecdotal evidence for this. i think its hard to realize that things that last for several years still do come to an end in many cases, their cycle is just slower. the fact that there isnt a term for the 5-10 year cycle is evidence that we are kinda blind to it.
standardUser 6y ago
While it's interesting to read about these concepts in the context of the time they were established (even if they do come off as hopelessly classist) I have always despised how they become conventional wisdom far beyond their shelf life. It compels people to ignore their unique life circumstances in favor of a shortcut explanation that may not apply to them at all. I've always been similarly wary of concepts like "rebound relationships" or "best years of your life". If we have a bunch of de-personalized frameworks to help explain the course of our own lives, it only moves us farther away from seeing our lives for what they really are. Maybe that relationship ended because you have attachment issues, not just because it happened to follow shortly after a different relationship. But if you and people around you write it off as just another classic "rebound", then you may miss out on the ability to learn something about yourself.
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- brianjunyinchan 6y ago
  > If we have a bunch of de-personalized frameworks to help explain the course of our own lives, it only moves us farther away from seeing our lives for what they really are Very well put. I feel most popular content about {categorized mental dynamic} has gone through a sort of natural selection of ideas, where they evolve to appear as very sound explanations to a general, population-scale public forum. But they equivalently become pointlessly broad brushes when applied to problems whose natures arise from nuanced and unique individual lives. And just because an idea has alluring memetic “aha! that explains it!” power, it doesn’t mean it’s true, particularly regarding mental states. I do believe there will someday be a generalizable-yet-customizable framework for understanding, but at the moment, there's definitely a systemic correlation between the distribution of an idea and its vagueness (like medium articles about productivity) So I find it’s most helpful to have an in-depth discussion with another human (familiar with the situation if possible). As a bonus, you can then incorporate knowledge from your own relationship with that person, perhaps an understanding of how they think too, and thus get a more complete picture. After such discussions, I inevitably think, “Wow, no way that nuance could have been pinpointed in society’s general discussion of this topic.” Some of the (IMO) most productive conversations I’ve had with friends re: our psychology and life reflections, I feel would be torn to smithereens or ridiculed by “modern” popular understandings.
trianglem 6y ago
Tangentially related, but I think that there’s a real problem in western society around the teen years. Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. This leads to a reliable pattern of teens “hating” their parents, a phenomenon that is non existent in the rest of the world especially Asia. This also leads to a huge disparity in what percentage of kids end up becoming successful adults even when all basic needs are met.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  Corporal punishment doesn't exactly prevent teens hating their parents, either. The most violent instance I've seen (as opposed to experienced) was within a culture that has very high respect for elders. A 20-something guy's dad beat him repeatedly with a log (3" diameter with the rough bark on doesn't really count as a stick) because the 20-something said something mean to his (the 20-something's) wife. The 20-something needed some kind of reprimand, but I wouldn't accept that kind of violence in trade for higher "respect" for elders.
- skim_milk 6y ago
  >Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. There's no doubt we're in this awkward generation where our parents were probably treated with corporal punishment, but still want to inflict onto their kids this which they were exposed to as a kid despite this no longer looking good/being legal. Even the anti-child-abuse book "For Your Own Good" by Alice Miller wrote "The former practice of physically maiming, exploiting, and abusing children seems to have been gradually replaced in modern times by a form of mental cruelty that is masked by the honorific term child-rearing". Of course the book pretty clearly covers the dangers of corporal punishment or any kind of attack on a child's self-worth. The point is to push through this awkward abusive phase and bring our species out the other side more self-aware by not continuing the cycle of abuse/neglect.
  - trianglem 6y ago
    How do you push through a phase with no corrective mechanism allowed on the other side? How do you propose you correct your kids? Corporal punishment is quick and decisive and both parties can move on quickly as opposed to the lifelong mental baggage that weighs down a lot of people in the western world.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
This has been going on a long time. Take for example Julius Caesar at the age of 33 as recorded by Plutarch: > In like manner we are told again that, in Spain, when he was at leisure and was reading from the history of Alexander, he was lost in thought for a long time, and then burst into tears. His friends were astonished, and asked the reason for his tears. "Do you not think," said he, "it is matter for sorrow that while Alexander, at my age, was already king of so many peoples, I have as yet achieved no brilliant success?" I think, at least for a lot of men, that a huge cause of the mid-life crisis is the death of boyhood dreams. Many of us dream of accomplishing great things. And it seems we have our whole life before us and limitless opportunities. However, by the time we reach midlife, we realize that time is running out, our physical prowess is on the way down, and we will never accomplish all that we have dreamed.
- konjin 6y ago
  >If you desire glory, you may envy Napoleon. But Napoleon envied Caesar, Caesar envied Alexander, and Alexander, I daresay, envied Hercules, who never existed. You cannot, therefore, get away from envy by means of success alone, for there will always be in history or legend some person even more successful than you are. [...] >Alexander the Great was psychologically of the same type as the lunatic, though he possessed the talent to achieve the lunatic's dream. He could not, however, achieve his own dream, which enlarged its scope as his achievement grew. When it became clear that he was the greatest conqueror known to fame, he decided that he was a god. Was he a happy man? His drunkenness, his furious rages, his indifference to women, and his claim to divinity, suggest that he was not. There is no ultimate satisfaction in the cultivation of one element of human nature at the expense of all the others, nor in viewing all the world as raw material for the magnificence of one's own ego. https://russell-j.com/beginner/COH-TEXT.HTM https://russell-j.com/beginner/COH-TEXT.HTM
- throwaway20234 6y ago
  I think this is precisely it. We all (many?) of us expect ourselves to have an extraordinary life and then we inevitably end up with something more ordinary than expected. I do wonder though if there is an additional component for folks in tech careers. If you stay heavily invested in the technology aspect of it, you might start wondering how much longer you can keep up with you folks in learning about the latest technology. If you move to the management track, you might feel less secure about your job and your ability to get a new position, especially as your former strong suit, the tech knowledge, atrophies. I moved to the manager track and sometimes interview folks for manager positions who are 10-15 years older than me and have been struggling to find a job for a very long time. Their tech skills are entirely outdated and I ask myself if that's me in 10 years.
redelbee 6y ago
I just finished reading “Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear” by Elizabeth Gilbert (of Eat, Pray, Love fame) and she brought up a related and interesting idea I can paraphrase: In midlife we’re concerned with status and our outward appearance, which can hinder creative output. Then we get older and realize that we don’t care what anyone thinks about us, which can lead to more creative risk taking and accomplishments. Then we get even older and we find the truth: nobody is thinking about you (except you) so it’s not worth concerning yourself with status or outside validation. In the midst of my own midlife crisis in the making I often find myself coming back to these types of concerns: How do I look to others? How do I compare to others? What am I missing out on? Thankfully I’ve been able to, so far at least, keep any real crisis similar to what’s described in the article or otherwise from occurring. I try to remind myself of what Gilbert explained, that no one really cares about me so I should live my life without worrying to much about what they think. I read a lot of books about creativity and most aren’t great, but I think “Big Magic” is a decent read. I also enjoyed the audiobook of “Creative Quest” by Questlove.
- CMCDragonkai 6y ago
  Sounds like the loser, clueless, sociopath transition.
  - sethaurus 6y ago
    Could you elaborate on this? Are you saying that being unconcerned about how one appears to others is a sociopathic trait? Which aspect of the GP would make someone a "loser"?
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      I believe parent is referencing this specifically: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...
      - 6y ago
ericmcer 6y ago
I recently read a story about two people on their death beds, both had worked hard and achieved success in their fields. One was happily reflective and talked about what a journey life had been, the other was upset and remorseful, talking about how much time he had wasted. I wonder if the contents of your life are secondary to your semi-hardwired emotional state. I am naturally somewhat anxious and hate wasting a day; conversely, I have friends who seem totally content after 9 months of unemployment and video games. Maybe it does not matter what you achieve, boxes you check, friends or relationships you make along the way. At the end if you are an unhappy person it will not be enough, and if you are naturally content it will all seem ok.
- wpietri 6y ago
  Could be. but it could just as well go the other way. Maybe the people who spent a lifetime trying to figure out what they wanted and really nail it will be the ones who are pretty satisfied. While the people who were on cruise control will say, "Wait, now I'm questioning my choices!" I suspect that's how it will work for me. Being naturally somewhat anxious has given me a lot of practice looking back and iterating. The areas of my life I'm most comfortable with are the ones where I've done the most work thinking about who I am and what I'm doing with my time.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  > At the end if you are an unhappy person it will not be enough, and if you are naturally content it will all seem ok. Yeah, regression to the baseline (happiness). Which is why trying to change your own life based on other people's dying regrets is utter stupidity.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    for sure. it's easy to say "I wish I'd done X" when all the effort required for X would already be in the past.
- giovannibonetti 6y ago
  According to the documentary Happy [1], happiness is ~50% genetics and ~50% about what happens in your life. The most intriguing part for me was that major life events like getting married (happy) or becoming disabled (bad) don't affect so much happiness in the long run. [1] https://www.thehappymovie.com/ https://www.thehappymovie.com/
dilap 6y ago
"We are now trapped in a world of kids. Old kids. The disappearance of patrimonial transmission means that an old guy today is just a useless ruin. The thing we value most of all is youth, which means that life automatically becomes depressing, because life consists, on the whole, of getting old." --Houellebecq
- renjimen 6y ago
  What about the other half of the population? It's an interesting quote but it doesn't explain why women also experience midlife crises. Could it simply be that a focus on career and modern nuclear families provide less satisfaction for the middle aged? That might explain the diminished patriarchal/matriarchal aspects for men and women.
  - konjin 6y ago
    Having listened to a few women going through theirs: kids. Either not having them, the kids not meeting their mothers expectations or the kids never wanting to see their mothers again once they grow up.
    - renjimen 6y ago
      What do we have to blame for that, do you think? Encouraging independence? Expectation inflation from social media?
      - Bakary 6y ago
        The general mindset of having kids as a project or to resolve some emotional turmoil. Unlike a dog, the child usually behaves in unanticipated ways...
knaq 6y ago
The article's most important quote: "All this is denied me in this stale marriage to an elderly, sickly, complaining, nagging wife. Let's get rid of her, start life all over again with another woman." Even if a person doesn't consciously have the thought, there is a biological drive to reproduce. Even if a person expresses the desire to be childless, that biological urge may be pushing for a younger mate who might be fertile. That leads to the anxiety. Trying to do impressive things and to display wealth, no matter how useless, is a biological urge. It becomes time to buy the fast car or take up hang gliding. When sanity and resource limits pull back on that, the emotions don't go so well.
peter303 6y ago
Age 35-40 was the best period of my life. I had a thriving career, strong health and great social and recreational life.
blendo 6y ago
This rings true: “Anderson's analysis shows that those born in 1891 could expect to inherit from their parents at the age of 37, while they still had children at home and when their oldest child was ‘at best only just entering the labour force’. By contrast, those born in 1946 could expect to wait until 56 before both parents had died, that is well after their children had left home, leaving middle-aged parents in the second half of the twentieth century vulnerable to economic constraints, particularly when they were sandwiched between caring for children and caring for elderly parents.”
- OneGuy123 6y ago
  This. Moderne parents have children much later so the children might have to end up supporting their parents before they even have a familiy of their own which puts a huge financial strain on them, preventing them from having more kids.

93 points by mayiplease 6y ago

I'm in my late 20s, and already starting to feel some anxiety around the nearing conclusion of what could be called my "youth". But my therapist, in his forties, has experienced (and relayed to me) the "life begins at 40" philosophy (I didn't actually realize it was something other people said until I saw this article). It's not just wishful thinking for him: he felt that he didn't really figure out who he was, didn't really start self-actualizing en force before 40. Having known him a few years, it's clear to me that he genuinely has a very balanced and happy life, one with a family that he loves but also with his own goals and small pleasures, his own meaningful friendships, etc. So I guess: I would tend to agree that the midlife crisis is a trap constructed by our western culture, and one that it's very possible to simply pass by. I think you just have to never stop working on yourself and asking (and listening to) what your needs are. Keep a balanced life of relationships, and pursuits, and self-care, and - yes - some accomplishments too. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Don't get complacent, but don't burn out either. Be in it for the long haul.

emerged 6y ago
I’m about to turn 40 and have never felt less in crisis. Although I have never had any fear of my own mortality which could be what drives the crisis for many people. I also don’t tend to care much about what I’m “supposed” to do in life vs what I want to do.
- brundolf 6y ago
  Historically I've taken the things "I want to do" and turned them into things "I'm supposed to do", and in the process built up a lot of stress over them. But that's something I've been working on changing, mainly via therapy :)
- tayo42 6y ago
  Curious if your hobbies include anything physical? Turned 30 recently and I feel like there's a good chance I won't do what I want in sports. Not so much about mortality but feeling your self not be as athletic as you have sucks and it only gets worse.
  - souprock 6y ago
    Physical troubles lead to being not athletic, which leads to mortality. For example: a bad knee joint prevents most exercise, leading to obesity and then onward to diabetes and heart failure. Physical activity sometimes causes those physical troubles. Injury can turn an athlete into very much not an athlete.
  - emerged 6y ago
    I’m in better shape than I’ve ever been. Lots of cardio and a decent amount of lifting.
- contingencies 6y ago
  I'm approaching 40 and in some ways have never felt more in crisis. Partly this is because having assets means exposure to new forms of risk. Major business or life decisions require days of effort over periods of weeks because the complexity and stakes now cross scope and potentiality boundaries that are unsettling at best and downright scary if not tackled in a structured fashion. In short, while I now have better tools, resources, and experience there is nobody to delegate the most critical decision making to, the stakes are vastly increased and the results don't just affect me anymore, therefore any execution what Bezos calls a 'type 1 decision' (effectively irreversible) must now be extremely well considered. Things that help: supportive investors, good lawyers, good doctors, the maintenance of long term friendships completely outside of work and family circles, family, exercise, nature.
yters 6y ago
Plato seems to have shared this view. He said one shouldn't engage in philosophy, life's most important pursuit, until one turns 40.
- kkoncevicius 6y ago
  Interestingly same suggestion is found in Kabbalah: in order to study it you have to be above 40 years old, expert in Talmud, and expert in Jewish law.
  - grammarisking 6y ago
    40 years is also a significant age within Islam, whereby a person usually reaches their prime. Explicitly mentioned in this verse for example: "We have commanded people to honour their parents. Their mothers bore them in hardship and delivered them in hardship. Their ˹period of˺ bearing and weaning is thirty months. In time, when the child reaches their prime at the age of forty, they pray, “My Lord! Inspire me to ˹always˺ be thankful for Your favours which You blessed me and my parents with, and to do good deeds that please You. And instil righteousness in my offspring. I truly repent to You, and I truly submit ˹to Your Will˺.”[1] [1]https://quran.com/46/15 https://quran.com/46/15
    - selimthegrim 6y ago
      Is that why my mom told me not to get married until 40?
kkoncevicius 6y ago
That might also be related to the occupation of your therapist - being, well, a therapist. Seems like almost everyone would choose an older person as their therapist; and conversely, hardly anyone, at, say 40 years old, would go see a 20 year old therapist. So their career really start taking off at maybe 40 and it steadily climbs up.
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  My wife is a therapist. All the therapists in her office are - always - busy, even if they’re 22. People seek all kinds of qualities in a therapist. “Older and wiser” is not a ubiquitous appeal.
  - kkoncevicius 6y ago
    Nice coincidence - my wife is also a therapist. But to get there, in my country, you need a lot of work and training, you cannot really be a 22-year old therapists. First you have to finish psychology (ages from 18 to 22), then finish Master's degree in psychology (22 to 24) and then another 6 years (24-30) for psychodynamic psychotherapy training coupled with regular therapy for yourself under a more experience advisor. And finally after that you can start calling yourself a psychotherapist. Here at 22 you can be a psychologist, which is a different thing. They have a lot of work - intelligence tests, emotional support, advice about social stress. But they don't do therapy.
    - germinalphrase 6y ago
      Your can become a therapist here (Minnesota in USA) with 4 years (undergraduate bachelors degree) plus 2 years Masters degree (for example, social work or marriage and family counseling). There are - of course - higher levels of training and certification, but that gets you in front of people and diagnosing.
- brundolf 6y ago
  Maybe, though I don't think he's the type who sees his career as the first or second most important thing in his life
hinkley 6y ago
As my friend’s parents put it, on the subject of adventures: At 40 you have the means to do many things, and the health to still do them. I think it does require keeping an inventory of dreams and assets, if-this-then-that style, but I don’t think that has the form of a midlife crisis. Those are less calculated in nature and manner.
nonbirithm 6y ago
As someone who is not yet 30 and is naive to the mindset of a 40-year-old, I get the impression that some people have it figured out sooner than others. Or if not having "the" thing figured out, have something at all figured out. This is dangerous for me because my mindset is that if I'm not spending most of my time on something, I will not be able to believe I'm "taking it seriously." From past experience, the end results of not spending enough time on what I did say as much. It is hard for me to leave my tunnel vision and see other things. (I have evidence this can be partially explained by a mental health diagnosis, but it isn't an excuse.) As typical, this is probably amplified by social media. Look at people's Twitter bios and look at how many describing words they use. Artist. Musician. Writer. Livestreamer. Some of these people got started when they were not even teenagers. As a result it's difficult not to feel as if you haven't found the words you'd be comfortable putting in your own bio. Why label yourself as such and such if you don't feel like you deserve it yet? (At least not to the extent that you see people's best selves being portrayed in their feeds.) But of course, ignoring comparisons to others, if those people found themselves there at some point, there would probablybe no reason not to write those words describing themselves. I end up believing I can only "find myself there" by deliberate action, not casually following a passion until you happen to arrive where you want. Everybody says memorable accomplishments require hard work.
- brundolf 6y ago
  I think you're being too hard on yourself, and if I may say, I think therapy could help you work some of this out (fwiw I believe nearly every person on the planet could benefit from at least a little therapy). Here's one way to try reframing it for now: I see the point of life as maximizing happiness for myself and others. So if I'm setting rigorous expectations for myself that don't actually contribute to that purpose in any way, and in fact partly sabotage it by making me miserable, there's no logical reason to hold those expectations in the first place. What do you or anyone else gain from "deserving" to put titles for yourself in your Twitter bio? Do those activities if they make you happy; if they don't, then don't waste energy on them. And certainly don't do them just to say that you did.
UncleOxidant 6y ago
Maybe your therapist can say life begins at 40 because for a therapist their career starts kicking into high gear at that point and really just keeps going upward until retirement. For a software developer your career can start heading downhill even before 40 - age seems to have no advantage (with regard to career stability) for software developers like it does for therapists, doctors and lawyers.
- wpietri 6y ago
  It doesn't? There are all sorts of things I think I do better now.
  - UncleOxidant 6y ago
    Oh, definitely same here (mid 50s) - lots of things I know and do better now than I did in my 20s. But we're not valued the same by industry.
- africanboy 6y ago
  I am a software developer, my career had its best moments when I was in my 20s, but at 43 I am making more money with less effort and more enjoyment than all the past 20 years combined.
  - x87678r 6y ago
    You're lucky, my best moments were in my 20s, my best paid were 30s, and now its just downhill everywhere. :)
vmception 6y ago
Look, if you suddenly get a new interest that is pretty flashy and you also have a cohesive family unit and kids, people will say you have a midlife crisis. If you don't, you are just cool guy successful enough to do your own thing. That's it.
africanboy 6y ago
> life begins at 40 Can confirm! But not in the way people usually think, being younger is awesome while being 40 is not as much. But I am completely self aware and don't think anymore that I am missing something like I did before. It doesn't really has to do with 40 as a number, it has to do with the moment one starts accepting himself and lives life the way it was supposed to be lived. Of course things change with age, but as someone that still is a night owl and still sleeps like a baby and can't easily wake up early in the morning, there is also the fact that you get treated like an adult with their own personality and accepted for that (or not accepted but you learned to not care that much and to move on) Daily activities are boring compared to what I did not long ago, but they are also more fulfilling and I spend most of my time with people I've been knowing for a long time, that I trust and love and that I can count on. So, if you ask me, middle life crisis was worse at 30 than at 40. When I'll be 50 I'll know more, but until now everything has been better in terms of accepting those things that would depress me or make me angry 10 years ago.
SoSoRoCoCo 6y ago
> "life begins at 40" As someone who is mid-50's, everything turned around at 40. Health, physique (was at the gym 4 days a week), job (quit a loathed job and found one I liked), relationship (got a well-needed divorce). I feel like I wasted my 20's being anxious and my 30's being married to someone I didn't love.

beepboopbeep 6y ago

I have a personal theory that we enter into a "crisis" of some sort roughly every 5 years. Essentially 1-2 years of definition/growth/change, 2 years-ish of normalcy post change, 1-2 years of redefinition as things become old and others become new/interesting. A perpetual cycle of shifting identity as we change internally and externally. I think it's a good thing to have and understand, but can be overwhelming as well. I have zero evidence of this, it's just kind of based on my own observations. It's helped me to not be so hard on my self though when I find my tastes, interests, and identity changing over time.

Swizec 6y ago
It’s the many lives theory! Taked about 7 years to focus on a thing effectively, leading to roughly 11 lives for most of us. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-09-02 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-09-02
- beepboopbeep 6y ago
  This is a great perspective on it, thank you! I'll be sending this around to a few folks
anonymouse008 6y ago
You could probably extrapolate the infant, child, adolescent, and adult's growth and development model (with hormone increases and decreases) to find evidence. I think your hunch is pretty cool and spot on for my experience as well. Surely, too, do external events either speed up or slow down some parts - but the core idea of new stage change, stasis, then redefinition could be worth exploring.
the_cat_kittles 6y ago
absolutely. the daily cycle, the weekly cycle, the quarterly cycle, the yearly cycle, and the 5-10 year cycle. i also have nothing but my own anecdotal evidence for this. i think its hard to realize that things that last for several years still do come to an end in many cases, their cycle is just slower. the fact that there isnt a term for the 5-10 year cycle is evidence that we are kinda blind to it.

standardUser 6y ago

While it's interesting to read about these concepts in the context of the time they were established (even if they do come off as hopelessly classist) I have always despised how they become conventional wisdom far beyond their shelf life. It compels people to ignore their unique life circumstances in favor of a shortcut explanation that may not apply to them at all. I've always been similarly wary of concepts like "rebound relationships" or "best years of your life". If we have a bunch of de-personalized frameworks to help explain the course of our own lives, it only moves us farther away from seeing our lives for what they really are. Maybe that relationship ended because you have attachment issues, not just because it happened to follow shortly after a different relationship. But if you and people around you write it off as just another classic "rebound", then you may miss out on the ability to learn something about yourself.

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brianjunyinchan 6y ago
> If we have a bunch of de-personalized frameworks to help explain the course of our own lives, it only moves us farther away from seeing our lives for what they really are Very well put. I feel most popular content about {categorized mental dynamic} has gone through a sort of natural selection of ideas, where they evolve to appear as very sound explanations to a general, population-scale public forum. But they equivalently become pointlessly broad brushes when applied to problems whose natures arise from nuanced and unique individual lives. And just because an idea has alluring memetic “aha! that explains it!” power, it doesn’t mean it’s true, particularly regarding mental states. I do believe there will someday be a generalizable-yet-customizable framework for understanding, but at the moment, there's definitely a systemic correlation between the distribution of an idea and its vagueness (like medium articles about productivity) So I find it’s most helpful to have an in-depth discussion with another human (familiar with the situation if possible). As a bonus, you can then incorporate knowledge from your own relationship with that person, perhaps an understanding of how they think too, and thus get a more complete picture. After such discussions, I inevitably think, “Wow, no way that nuance could have been pinpointed in society’s general discussion of this topic.” Some of the (IMO) most productive conversations I’ve had with friends re: our psychology and life reflections, I feel would be torn to smithereens or ridiculed by “modern” popular understandings.

trianglem 6y ago

Tangentially related, but I think that there’s a real problem in western society around the teen years. Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. This leads to a reliable pattern of teens “hating” their parents, a phenomenon that is non existent in the rest of the world especially Asia. This also leads to a huge disparity in what percentage of kids end up becoming successful adults even when all basic needs are met.

nitrogen 6y ago
Corporal punishment doesn't exactly prevent teens hating their parents, either. The most violent instance I've seen (as opposed to experienced) was within a culture that has very high respect for elders. A 20-something guy's dad beat him repeatedly with a log (3" diameter with the rough bark on doesn't really count as a stick) because the 20-something said something mean to his (the 20-something's) wife. The 20-something needed some kind of reprimand, but I wouldn't accept that kind of violence in trade for higher "respect" for elders.
skim_milk 6y ago
>Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. There's no doubt we're in this awkward generation where our parents were probably treated with corporal punishment, but still want to inflict onto their kids this which they were exposed to as a kid despite this no longer looking good/being legal. Even the anti-child-abuse book "For Your Own Good" by Alice Miller wrote "The former practice of physically maiming, exploiting, and abusing children seems to have been gradually replaced in modern times by a form of mental cruelty that is masked by the honorific term child-rearing". Of course the book pretty clearly covers the dangers of corporal punishment or any kind of attack on a child's self-worth. The point is to push through this awkward abusive phase and bring our species out the other side more self-aware by not continuing the cycle of abuse/neglect.
- trianglem 6y ago
  How do you push through a phase with no corrective mechanism allowed on the other side? How do you propose you correct your kids? Corporal punishment is quick and decisive and both parties can move on quickly as opposed to the lifelong mental baggage that weighs down a lot of people in the western world.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago

This has been going on a long time. Take for example Julius Caesar at the age of 33 as recorded by Plutarch: > In like manner we are told again that, in Spain, when he was at leisure and was reading from the history of Alexander, he was lost in thought for a long time, and then burst into tears. His friends were astonished, and asked the reason for his tears. "Do you not think," said he, "it is matter for sorrow that while Alexander, at my age, was already king of so many peoples, I have as yet achieved no brilliant success?" I think, at least for a lot of men, that a huge cause of the mid-life crisis is the death of boyhood dreams. Many of us dream of accomplishing great things. And it seems we have our whole life before us and limitless opportunities. However, by the time we reach midlife, we realize that time is running out, our physical prowess is on the way down, and we will never accomplish all that we have dreamed.

konjin 6y ago
>If you desire glory, you may envy Napoleon. But Napoleon envied Caesar, Caesar envied Alexander, and Alexander, I daresay, envied Hercules, who never existed. You cannot, therefore, get away from envy by means of success alone, for there will always be in history or legend some person even more successful than you are. [...] >Alexander the Great was psychologically of the same type as the lunatic, though he possessed the talent to achieve the lunatic's dream. He could not, however, achieve his own dream, which enlarged its scope as his achievement grew. When it became clear that he was the greatest conqueror known to fame, he decided that he was a god. Was he a happy man? His drunkenness, his furious rages, his indifference to women, and his claim to divinity, suggest that he was not. There is no ultimate satisfaction in the cultivation of one element of human nature at the expense of all the others, nor in viewing all the world as raw material for the magnificence of one's own ego. https://russell-j.com/beginner/COH-TEXT.HTM https://russell-j.com/beginner/COH-TEXT.HTM
throwaway20234 6y ago
I think this is precisely it. We all (many?) of us expect ourselves to have an extraordinary life and then we inevitably end up with something more ordinary than expected. I do wonder though if there is an additional component for folks in tech careers. If you stay heavily invested in the technology aspect of it, you might start wondering how much longer you can keep up with you folks in learning about the latest technology. If you move to the management track, you might feel less secure about your job and your ability to get a new position, especially as your former strong suit, the tech knowledge, atrophies. I moved to the manager track and sometimes interview folks for manager positions who are 10-15 years older than me and have been struggling to find a job for a very long time. Their tech skills are entirely outdated and I ask myself if that's me in 10 years.

redelbee 6y ago

I just finished reading “Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear” by Elizabeth Gilbert (of Eat, Pray, Love fame) and she brought up a related and interesting idea I can paraphrase: In midlife we’re concerned with status and our outward appearance, which can hinder creative output. Then we get older and realize that we don’t care what anyone thinks about us, which can lead to more creative risk taking and accomplishments. Then we get even older and we find the truth: nobody is thinking about you (except you) so it’s not worth concerning yourself with status or outside validation. In the midst of my own midlife crisis in the making I often find myself coming back to these types of concerns: How do I look to others? How do I compare to others? What am I missing out on? Thankfully I’ve been able to, so far at least, keep any real crisis similar to what’s described in the article or otherwise from occurring. I try to remind myself of what Gilbert explained, that no one really cares about me so I should live my life without worrying to much about what they think. I read a lot of books about creativity and most aren’t great, but I think “Big Magic” is a decent read. I also enjoyed the audiobook of “Creative Quest” by Questlove.

CMCDragonkai 6y ago
Sounds like the loser, clueless, sociopath transition.
- sethaurus 6y ago
  Could you elaborate on this? Are you saying that being unconcerned about how one appears to others is a sociopathic trait? Which aspect of the GP would make someone a "loser"?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    I believe parent is referencing this specifically: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...
    - 6y ago

ericmcer 6y ago

I recently read a story about two people on their death beds, both had worked hard and achieved success in their fields. One was happily reflective and talked about what a journey life had been, the other was upset and remorseful, talking about how much time he had wasted. I wonder if the contents of your life are secondary to your semi-hardwired emotional state. I am naturally somewhat anxious and hate wasting a day; conversely, I have friends who seem totally content after 9 months of unemployment and video games. Maybe it does not matter what you achieve, boxes you check, friends or relationships you make along the way. At the end if you are an unhappy person it will not be enough, and if you are naturally content it will all seem ok.

wpietri 6y ago
Could be. but it could just as well go the other way. Maybe the people who spent a lifetime trying to figure out what they wanted and really nail it will be the ones who are pretty satisfied. While the people who were on cruise control will say, "Wait, now I'm questioning my choices!" I suspect that's how it will work for me. Being naturally somewhat anxious has given me a lot of practice looking back and iterating. The areas of my life I'm most comfortable with are the ones where I've done the most work thinking about who I am and what I'm doing with my time.
ekianjo 6y ago
> At the end if you are an unhappy person it will not be enough, and if you are naturally content it will all seem ok. Yeah, regression to the baseline (happiness). Which is why trying to change your own life based on other people's dying regrets is utter stupidity.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  for sure. it's easy to say "I wish I'd done X" when all the effort required for X would already be in the past.
giovannibonetti 6y ago
According to the documentary Happy [1], happiness is ~50% genetics and ~50% about what happens in your life. The most intriguing part for me was that major life events like getting married (happy) or becoming disabled (bad) don't affect so much happiness in the long run. [1] https://www.thehappymovie.com/ https://www.thehappymovie.com/

dilap 6y ago

"We are now trapped in a world of kids. Old kids. The disappearance of patrimonial transmission means that an old guy today is just a useless ruin. The thing we value most of all is youth, which means that life automatically becomes depressing, because life consists, on the whole, of getting old." --Houellebecq

renjimen 6y ago
What about the other half of the population? It's an interesting quote but it doesn't explain why women also experience midlife crises. Could it simply be that a focus on career and modern nuclear families provide less satisfaction for the middle aged? That might explain the diminished patriarchal/matriarchal aspects for men and women.
- konjin 6y ago
  Having listened to a few women going through theirs: kids. Either not having them, the kids not meeting their mothers expectations or the kids never wanting to see their mothers again once they grow up.
  - renjimen 6y ago
    What do we have to blame for that, do you think? Encouraging independence? Expectation inflation from social media?
    - Bakary 6y ago
      The general mindset of having kids as a project or to resolve some emotional turmoil. Unlike a dog, the child usually behaves in unanticipated ways...

knaq 6y ago

The article's most important quote: "All this is denied me in this stale marriage to an elderly, sickly, complaining, nagging wife. Let's get rid of her, start life all over again with another woman." Even if a person doesn't consciously have the thought, there is a biological drive to reproduce. Even if a person expresses the desire to be childless, that biological urge may be pushing for a younger mate who might be fertile. That leads to the anxiety. Trying to do impressive things and to display wealth, no matter how useless, is a biological urge. It becomes time to buy the fast car or take up hang gliding. When sanity and resource limits pull back on that, the emotions don't go so well.

peter303 6y ago

Age 35-40 was the best period of my life. I had a thriving career, strong health and great social and recreational life.

blendo 6y ago

This rings true: “Anderson's analysis shows that those born in 1891 could expect to inherit from their parents at the age of 37, while they still had children at home and when their oldest child was ‘at best only just entering the labour force’. By contrast, those born in 1946 could expect to wait until 56 before both parents had died, that is well after their children had left home, leaving middle-aged parents in the second half of the twentieth century vulnerable to economic constraints, particularly when they were sandwiched between caring for children and caring for elderly parents.”

OneGuy123 6y ago
This. Moderne parents have children much later so the children might have to end up supporting their parents before they even have a familiy of their own which puts a huge financial strain on them, preventing them from having more kids.