4 ms·

>Arguably, no one should be running a server that long in 2020. That's mental.

Karunamon 6y ago
My read on that is that you should be treating your servers as disposable and ephemeral as possible. Long uptimes mean configuration drift, general snowflakery, difficulties patching, patches getting delayed/not done, and so forth. Ideally you'd never upgrade your software in the usual way. You'd simply deploy the new version with automated tooling and tear down the older.
- NDizzle 6y ago
  "Ideally" - that's the problem. I have half a dozen long tail side projects running right now on Centos 7, and a few still on Centos 6. Do you have any idea how much effort it is to change everything over to "treating your servers as disposable"?! It's going to eat up a third (to half) of my "fun time" budget for the foreseeable future!
  - effie 6y ago
    Exactly, young devs here are completely out of touch with operations. Of course ideally something like standard 1TB HDD+32GB RAM system would be upgraded to newer OS and apps version by a central tool in 2hours, but we don't such FM technology yet.
- hibbelig 6y ago
  I don't get this. If there are many servers, sure. But if it's something that runs on a single box without problem, why on earth should I tear it down? Also, "running a server for ten years" does not need to mean that it has ten years of uptime. I think that wasn't meant.
  - moonbug 6y ago
    Ten years of uptime seems neither an unreasonable nor unattainable requirement. There's more to computers than mayfly web startups.
    - hibbelig 6y ago
      If it's not connected to the Internet, okay. If it is connected to the Internet, then I guess the kernel needs to be hot-patched need to be applied to avoid security issues. Were hot kernel patches available ten years ago? I remember some company who did this (for Linux), and it was quite a while back, so it's possible. But I doubt it was mainstream. I recall long ago that SunOS boxes had to be rebooted for kernel patches. I don't remember about Solaris. I'm not familiar with other Unices.
      - moonbug 6y ago
        ksplice, and it's an Oracle product
- cat199 6y ago
  > automated tooling the 'usual way' is automated tooling

My read on that is that you should be treating your servers as disposable and ephemeral as possible. Long uptimes mean configuration drift, general snowflakery, difficulties patching, patches getting delayed/not done, and so forth. Ideally you'd never upgrade your software in the usual way. You'd simply deploy the new version with automated tooling and tear down the older.

NDizzle 6y ago
"Ideally" - that's the problem. I have half a dozen long tail side projects running right now on Centos 7, and a few still on Centos 6. Do you have any idea how much effort it is to change everything over to "treating your servers as disposable"?! It's going to eat up a third (to half) of my "fun time" budget for the foreseeable future!
- effie 6y ago
  Exactly, young devs here are completely out of touch with operations. Of course ideally something like standard 1TB HDD+32GB RAM system would be upgraded to newer OS and apps version by a central tool in 2hours, but we don't such FM technology yet.
hibbelig 6y ago
I don't get this. If there are many servers, sure. But if it's something that runs on a single box without problem, why on earth should I tear it down? Also, "running a server for ten years" does not need to mean that it has ten years of uptime. I think that wasn't meant.
- moonbug 6y ago
  Ten years of uptime seems neither an unreasonable nor unattainable requirement. There's more to computers than mayfly web startups.
  - hibbelig 6y ago
    If it's not connected to the Internet, okay. If it is connected to the Internet, then I guess the kernel needs to be hot-patched need to be applied to avoid security issues. Were hot kernel patches available ten years ago? I remember some company who did this (for Linux), and it was quite a while back, so it's possible. But I doubt it was mainstream. I recall long ago that SunOS boxes had to be rebooted for kernel patches. I don't remember about Solaris. I'm not familiar with other Unices.
    - moonbug 6y ago
      ksplice, and it's an Oracle product
cat199 6y ago
> automated tooling the 'usual way' is automated tooling