7 ms·

I have mixed feelings. It might undermine trust (already feeble in the U.S. across the board when it comes to both authority and science nowadays) if there are

I have mixed feelings. It might undermine trust (already feeble in the U.S. across the board when it comes to both authority and science nowadays) if there are false results. When Musk tweeted his results of what I believe were antigen (and not PCR tests, which are more accurate), and showed contradictory results with a WTF attitude, that's an example of what we'll see more of. Musk is no shining example, but the messaging somehow needs to be "this is just a first line test, you should really rely on PCR test." That last line seems too complex, as simple as it is, to relay via the news media and 'the public.'

artvark11 6y ago
People will continue to test their dogs and fizzy drinks and laugh when it comes up positive.
spacious 6y ago
Check out https://www.rapidtests.org/ https://www.rapidtests.org/ and https://time.com/5912705/covid-19-stop-spread-christmas/ https://time.com/5912705/covid-19-stop-spread-christmas/ The tests are actually very accurate at determining contagiousness, which makes them a great tool if used in the right way.
dawnerd 6y ago
Musk later took two PCR tests which we conveniently heard nothing from him afterwards, so Im just assuming it came back positive and he just shut up to save face. 30 dollars for a rapid test is still too much. It needs to be something people do daily.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- gpm 6y ago
  > which we conveniently heard nothing from him afterwards He reported back on the PCR tests in a fair amount of detail, tl;dr he was unambiguously positive. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1328747352400785409?lang=en https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1328747352400785409?lang... Meta: The amount of shit he gets for things he supposedly didn't do that he did, and supposedly did do that he didn't, is amazing. There's a lot of good reasons to criticize him (and most other humans), but people are remarkably bad at criticizing him for those things, and remarkably bad at not criticizing him for other things. It must be very frustrating to be a celebrity.
  - dawnerd 6y ago
    ... reported back as a reply to someone else in a completely off-topic thread.
    - gpm 6y ago
      So... you're complaining about him not spending the time to keep his tweets well organized? That... seems like a lot to expect.
      - scotu 6y ago
        (you might have pressed "submit" before ending your message, I think you meant:) ...a lot to expect from someone in bad faith (or charitably, irresponsible) like musk. After stirring the pot, someone in good faith with a huge platform, would have indeed kept this tweets well organized
gpm 6y ago
I'm of the opinion that Musk was write to consider that a "wtf" result - but he could have done a much better of messaging why it was such a wtf. If a cheap test gives independently random false negative results when administered multiple times to the same human, and doesn't give independently random false positive results at an appreciable rate (which is what I've been told about that test), the test is broken for no good reason. Whoever designed it should have designed a testing protocol where you perform the test multiple times to drive the number of false negatives down - and clearly communicated that this was possible if you were looking for accurate test results. Yes, sometimes you aren't looking for accurate individual test results, e.g. if doing statistical studies, but how these tests are being used frequently you are.
wskinner 6y ago
A scenario where public health authorities don’t allow the public to have a test because the public might not understand how to interpret the results will likely undermine trust. It will solidify the belief that these authorities treat us like children, and their recommendations cannot be taken at face value. And that may be a more significant cost in the long run.
- darkerside 6y ago
  I was going to say this isn't black and white, but that actually understates it. It's pretty black and white. There are many things that are not approved for medical usage because using them unsafely or incorrectly could result in problematic outcomes. That said, I didn't see any information on the sensitivity of the test. Did I miss it?
- FreakyT 6y ago
  Honestly, if COVID has taught us anything, it's that people are on average should be treated as children, because it's pretty clear they aren't capable of rational decision making.
  - rudedogg 6y ago
    The biggest problem is a lack of trust for our government and institutions. I don’t see how lying will do anything to help that. Whoever decided lying to the public about masks to make sure health care workers had PPE should be prosecuted IMO.
    - pas 6y ago
      Children shouldn't be lied to either. Plus as far as I'm aware there was no lying, it was a very wishy-washy diversion, woes about PPE shortage due to China shut down, and 5D chessing about trying to not worsen the shortage instead of giving a simple and clear answer, that "yes, they unquestionably help [healthcare workers use them for a reason!], but we'll be stockpiling every shipment for later".
  - seneca 6y ago
UncleOxidant 6y ago
Check out this in depth discussion on at home covid testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjphzlV5DYo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjphzlV5DYo Bottom line(s): * These kinds of at-home antigen tests are more likely to accurately test positive when the person is actually infectious. Yes, they do test negative when PCR can return positive, but (according to the doctor there) the PCR can often return positive when the person is no longer infectious. * at-home tests could easily be produced now (with some government investment) for a couple of bucks apiece (possibly even less). The low price would allow the government to send some number of these to each household and suggest that they self-test twice a week which would be enough to catch people during the actual infectious period.
jedberg 6y ago
It would be in line with pregnancy tests. You can do an at home test that gets results in a few minutes, but they always tell you that if you get a positive result you still need to verify it with your doctor and a blood test. I assume the messaging would be similar.
- jonny_eh 6y ago
  Luckily that one isn't contagious.
  - gpm 6y ago
    If humans temporarily stopped getting pregnant, the pregnancy... condition... would be eliminated within a century.
  - jedberg 6y ago
    Well it could have negative effects on at least one other person, depending on the circumstances.
nmz 6y ago
Elon is a business owner, with the virus affecting his bottom line, he has belittled it since the beginning.

artvark11 6y ago

People will continue to test their dogs and fizzy drinks and laugh when it comes up positive.

spacious 6y ago

Check out https://www.rapidtests.org/ https://www.rapidtests.org/ and https://time.com/5912705/covid-19-stop-spread-christmas/ https://time.com/5912705/covid-19-stop-spread-christmas/ The tests are actually very accurate at determining contagiousness, which makes them a great tool if used in the right way.

dawnerd 6y ago

Musk later took two PCR tests which we conveniently heard nothing from him afterwards, so Im just assuming it came back positive and he just shut up to save face. 30 dollars for a rapid test is still too much. It needs to be something people do daily.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
gpm 6y ago
> which we conveniently heard nothing from him afterwards He reported back on the PCR tests in a fair amount of detail, tl;dr he was unambiguously positive. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1328747352400785409?lang=en https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1328747352400785409?lang... Meta: The amount of shit he gets for things he supposedly didn't do that he did, and supposedly did do that he didn't, is amazing. There's a lot of good reasons to criticize him (and most other humans), but people are remarkably bad at criticizing him for those things, and remarkably bad at not criticizing him for other things. It must be very frustrating to be a celebrity.
- dawnerd 6y ago
  ... reported back as a reply to someone else in a completely off-topic thread.
  - gpm 6y ago
    So... you're complaining about him not spending the time to keep his tweets well organized? That... seems like a lot to expect.
    - scotu 6y ago
      (you might have pressed "submit" before ending your message, I think you meant:) ...a lot to expect from someone in bad faith (or charitably, irresponsible) like musk. After stirring the pot, someone in good faith with a huge platform, would have indeed kept this tweets well organized

gpm 6y ago

I'm of the opinion that Musk was write to consider that a "wtf" result - but he could have done a much better of messaging why it was such a wtf. If a cheap test gives independently random false negative results when administered multiple times to the same human, and doesn't give independently random false positive results at an appreciable rate (which is what I've been told about that test), the test is broken for no good reason. Whoever designed it should have designed a testing protocol where you perform the test multiple times to drive the number of false negatives down - and clearly communicated that this was possible if you were looking for accurate test results. Yes, sometimes you aren't looking for accurate individual test results, e.g. if doing statistical studies, but how these tests are being used frequently you are.

wskinner 6y ago

A scenario where public health authorities don’t allow the public to have a test because the public might not understand how to interpret the results will likely undermine trust. It will solidify the belief that these authorities treat us like children, and their recommendations cannot be taken at face value. And that may be a more significant cost in the long run.

darkerside 6y ago
I was going to say this isn't black and white, but that actually understates it. It's pretty black and white. There are many things that are not approved for medical usage because using them unsafely or incorrectly could result in problematic outcomes. That said, I didn't see any information on the sensitivity of the test. Did I miss it?
FreakyT 6y ago
Honestly, if COVID has taught us anything, it's that people are on average should be treated as children, because it's pretty clear they aren't capable of rational decision making.
- rudedogg 6y ago
  The biggest problem is a lack of trust for our government and institutions. I don’t see how lying will do anything to help that. Whoever decided lying to the public about masks to make sure health care workers had PPE should be prosecuted IMO.
  - pas 6y ago
    Children shouldn't be lied to either. Plus as far as I'm aware there was no lying, it was a very wishy-washy diversion, woes about PPE shortage due to China shut down, and 5D chessing about trying to not worsen the shortage instead of giving a simple and clear answer, that "yes, they unquestionably help [healthcare workers use them for a reason!], but we'll be stockpiling every shipment for later".
- seneca 6y ago

UncleOxidant 6y ago

Check out this in depth discussion on at home covid testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjphzlV5DYo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjphzlV5DYo Bottom line(s): * These kinds of at-home antigen tests are more likely to accurately test positive when the person is actually infectious. Yes, they do test negative when PCR can return positive, but (according to the doctor there) the PCR can often return positive when the person is no longer infectious. * at-home tests could easily be produced now (with some government investment) for a couple of bucks apiece (possibly even less). The low price would allow the government to send some number of these to each household and suggest that they self-test twice a week which would be enough to catch people during the actual infectious period.

jedberg 6y ago

It would be in line with pregnancy tests. You can do an at home test that gets results in a few minutes, but they always tell you that if you get a positive result you still need to verify it with your doctor and a blood test. I assume the messaging would be similar.

jonny_eh 6y ago
Luckily that one isn't contagious.
- gpm 6y ago
  If humans temporarily stopped getting pregnant, the pregnancy... condition... would be eliminated within a century.
- jedberg 6y ago
  Well it could have negative effects on at least one other person, depending on the circumstances.

nmz 6y ago

Elon is a business owner, with the virus affecting his bottom line, he has belittled it since the beginning.