3 ms·

For what it's worth, GTK and Qt (while being cross platform) are also effectively the native toolkits on Linux. So if you're developing for Linux in the first p

For what it's worth, GTK and Qt (while being cross platform) are also effectively the native toolkits on Linux. So if you're developing for Linux in the first place, you get the cross platform bit for free.

tracker1 6y ago
Of course it also means extra effort to make them less alien on MacOS and Windows. While less than popular, I'm more inclined to just target Electron or Carlo and leave it at that for my UIs. I know that it's much higher overhead, and if I was doing something with a minimal UI, or something that persisted in a tray I'd probably reach for something more minimal. It really depends on the use case. React Native options may be another target that I might look into if I needed native, thought he UI kits aren't quite as interoperable as I'd necessarily like, it's a pretty decent option. I mostly do full-stack service layers with react/web ui these days so anything that leans on what I already do is likely the best use of my time. A browser surface, while massive, memory hungry etc, is still often the best option for any app UI work as it solves so many issues and can run everywhere. It's the combination of those two that make it so appealing. Reducing friction. Of course it's also why we have mobile devices with 4gb+ ram on them these days. edit: would also consider uno with .Net 5 - https://platform.uno/ https://platform.uno/
- topspin 6y ago
  I look at my Windows 10 desktop and you know what? Everything is alien. Even Microsoft's own stuff doesn't feel native any longer. Every program I care about is based on some widget tookit/framework that isn't now and probably never will be whatever Microsoft is pushing this year, and Microsoft's own software spans some unknown number of GUI evolution phases as well. I used to think there was value in being well aligned with the native Desktop UI. Now I don't really know what that is any more and I no longer really care. I care that a given application serves it purpose and the degree of an application's alignment with the latest native UI trend is well down on my list of concerns. Coping with the delta between applications is a small problem I try not to get hung up on.
  - pavlov 6y ago
    The same thing is happening to macOS. Big Sur is sealing the deal with a mishmash of iOS styles inconsistently applied across the desktop. I was always a huge believer in native UI, following the platform HIG, never reinventing controls just to satisfy graphic design caprices; but Apple has essentially given up on these things. The Mac UI is now just Windows 10 with rounded corners instead of sharp.
    - topspin 6y ago
      Well that's 0 for 3 then. Linux has always exhibited this 'problem.' Windows is effectively at parity with Linux now, and you point out the increasing divergence of even macOS. What shall we conclude from all of this? I propose that simultaneously expecting a) an operating system to host a limitless diversity of graphical applications with origins that transcend platforms, programming paradigms and decades and b) that they all precisely align with your chosen operating systems ever changing GUI conventions and c) all of this be delivered at at least affordable if not no cost -- is simply unreasonable.
    - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
      I suppose you could argue having a common style between macOS and iOS is more consistent. I'm still undecided about the new style in Big Sur. On the other hand I spend a lot of time in Windows and find the whole UI grating.
  - tracker1 6y ago
    s/alien/fugly/g

tracker1 6y ago

Of course it also means extra effort to make them less alien on MacOS and Windows. While less than popular, I'm more inclined to just target Electron or Carlo and leave it at that for my UIs. I know that it's much higher overhead, and if I was doing something with a minimal UI, or something that persisted in a tray I'd probably reach for something more minimal. It really depends on the use case. React Native options may be another target that I might look into if I needed native, thought he UI kits aren't quite as interoperable as I'd necessarily like, it's a pretty decent option. I mostly do full-stack service layers with react/web ui these days so anything that leans on what I already do is likely the best use of my time. A browser surface, while massive, memory hungry etc, is still often the best option for any app UI work as it solves so many issues and can run everywhere. It's the combination of those two that make it so appealing. Reducing friction. Of course it's also why we have mobile devices with 4gb+ ram on them these days. edit: would also consider uno with .Net 5 - https://platform.uno/ https://platform.uno/

topspin 6y ago
I look at my Windows 10 desktop and you know what? Everything is alien. Even Microsoft's own stuff doesn't feel native any longer. Every program I care about is based on some widget tookit/framework that isn't now and probably never will be whatever Microsoft is pushing this year, and Microsoft's own software spans some unknown number of GUI evolution phases as well. I used to think there was value in being well aligned with the native Desktop UI. Now I don't really know what that is any more and I no longer really care. I care that a given application serves it purpose and the degree of an application's alignment with the latest native UI trend is well down on my list of concerns. Coping with the delta between applications is a small problem I try not to get hung up on.
- pavlov 6y ago
  The same thing is happening to macOS. Big Sur is sealing the deal with a mishmash of iOS styles inconsistently applied across the desktop. I was always a huge believer in native UI, following the platform HIG, never reinventing controls just to satisfy graphic design caprices; but Apple has essentially given up on these things. The Mac UI is now just Windows 10 with rounded corners instead of sharp.
  - topspin 6y ago
    Well that's 0 for 3 then. Linux has always exhibited this 'problem.' Windows is effectively at parity with Linux now, and you point out the increasing divergence of even macOS. What shall we conclude from all of this? I propose that simultaneously expecting a) an operating system to host a limitless diversity of graphical applications with origins that transcend platforms, programming paradigms and decades and b) that they all precisely align with your chosen operating systems ever changing GUI conventions and c) all of this be delivered at at least affordable if not no cost -- is simply unreasonable.
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    I suppose you could argue having a common style between macOS and iOS is more consistent. I'm still undecided about the new style in Big Sur. On the other hand I spend a lot of time in Windows and find the whole UI grating.
- tracker1 6y ago
  s/alien/fugly/g