4 ms·

I'm a new-isly minted biophysics PhD. The reason I got into physics was because it felt fulfilling and my opinion of industry was shaped by a high-school intern

I'm a new-isly minted biophysics PhD. The reason I got into physics was because it felt fulfilling and my opinion of industry was shaped by a high-school internship at a defense contractor which was a total slog. During my PhD, I got the full experience, drumming up new ideas, grant/proposal writing, managing and setting project goals, maintaining collaborations and doing the actual work. It was fulfilling and fun especially working with great group of people that are 100% dedicated but, boy, was really, really hard. The long hours, terrible pay, and watching people stuck in the post-doc treadmill got to me. Plus, I saw quite a few 2-body problems fall apart (mine included). I also watched my advisor go through the tenure process, it seemed like he never slept. It's been challenging getting into industry (I'm still looking :) ), but, if I make it, I'll write a blog post to see if there are any regrets in 5 years. But, like the author, I'm already missing the culture, going to seminars (the terrible seminar coffee), and nerding out with friends in other disciplines.

ramraj07 6y ago
There will always be regrets, but at least you'll sleep better and rub your tears with Benjamins if you leave academia and regret that :) Academia will always look like the grass is greener "I can do whatever I want" type. But we shouldn't forget actually you can't, you can only do what others think you're good at, and what the grant review panels think you can feasibly do. My plan is to just use the extra money from a tech job to open my garage lab. It's getting easier by the day. A fancy deltavision microscope costs less than a cheap boat, so it's not even an expensive hobby if you think about it. You really can do whatever you want, you'll just be limited by money than by other people :)
- owenversteeg 6y ago
  Just out of curiosity, how much is a fancy deltavision microscope? I very briefly Googled to check and didn't see anything on eBay or other sites. And why not rent time on one? Apparently the University of Arizona (and a number of other universities) rent time on theirs for $25/hr (https://microscopy.arizona.edu/equipment/deltavision-rt-deconvolution-microscope-com https://microscopy.arizona.edu/equipment/deltavision-rt-deco...)
  - ramraj07 6y ago
    I have researched it and it used to be 100-200k range. It's also possible they don't sell them anymore. Depends on the stage, camera and enclosure. Might have changed though. However you can build your own decent non confocal microscope for that price range with individual parts. You can rent time if you just need it for a bit here and there, or if the economics make sense that way for sure. But then, I'm saying I can also buy or build my own and still do it with just regular tech salaries on the side!
    - monoideism 6y ago
      > 100-200k range Yeah, that's a lot more than a cheap boat. You can get a lot of boat for 50k - like a Boston Whaler 190 Montauk. Not yacht, but boat. And not sure what you're making, but that's a pretty damn expensive hobby for most of us.
- japanuspus 6y ago
  Good point. The admin and teaching parts of a tenure-track position would likely take way more than your normal working time, so you might end up with more time for doing research.
  - SiempreViernes 6y ago
    You need a real cushy job to get enough time and energy for the second job that would be the research. And a tenure-track position usually comes with some workforce or at the very least a good network of experts to refer to. There are of course really shit academic positions, but you'll anyway not have time for research if you have a really shit job, so that objections seems to cancel.
- yowlingcat 6y ago
  > You really can do whatever you want, you'll just be limited by money than by other people :) I think that your idea is the practical one and you'll get a lot of mileage out of it, but may I add one more limiting constraint, one I've had to learn to respect from experience? That constraint is mental energy. Your job in tech has constraints that mean if you're doing it right and are working in a role that's pushing you to your full potential, you won't have enough mental energy at the end of the day to work on your side projects. While that might be disappointing, it's often a lot better than the alternative: if you select for a cushy job which has great WLB, you may experience a level of disillusionment from stasis that can also make it hard to want to work on things outside of work. I wish I had an easy answer to this stuff but I don't. Long-term, if you have a stable career in tech, it makes it a lot easier to take time off for sabbaticals or periods of startup work (yours or others) because you can return to a well-compensated career that's pleasant and will give you enormous surplus lifetime earnings -- a perfect match for scientific work on the side, as you put it! But it's still a career. To get growth you'll be happy with, it will take the lion's share of your mental energy and strategic planning, over a long period of time. Good fortune aside, there's often no way around that.
foota 6y ago
I can't tell if 2 body problem is a play on words for a relationship or simply a physics problem. :thinking:
- eindiran 6y ago
  It's a play on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-body_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-body_problem But referring to a relationship, and the difficulty of finding a location that works for both people in a relationship. See: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=two-body%20problem https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=two-body%20p... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-body_problem_(career) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-body_problem_(career)

ramraj07 6y ago

There will always be regrets, but at least you'll sleep better and rub your tears with Benjamins if you leave academia and regret that :) Academia will always look like the grass is greener "I can do whatever I want" type. But we shouldn't forget actually you can't, you can only do what others think you're good at, and what the grant review panels think you can feasibly do. My plan is to just use the extra money from a tech job to open my garage lab. It's getting easier by the day. A fancy deltavision microscope costs less than a cheap boat, so it's not even an expensive hobby if you think about it. You really can do whatever you want, you'll just be limited by money than by other people :)

owenversteeg 6y ago
Just out of curiosity, how much is a fancy deltavision microscope? I very briefly Googled to check and didn't see anything on eBay or other sites. And why not rent time on one? Apparently the University of Arizona (and a number of other universities) rent time on theirs for $25/hr (https://microscopy.arizona.edu/equipment/deltavision-rt-deconvolution-microscope-com https://microscopy.arizona.edu/equipment/deltavision-rt-deco...)
- ramraj07 6y ago
  I have researched it and it used to be 100-200k range. It's also possible they don't sell them anymore. Depends on the stage, camera and enclosure. Might have changed though. However you can build your own decent non confocal microscope for that price range with individual parts. You can rent time if you just need it for a bit here and there, or if the economics make sense that way for sure. But then, I'm saying I can also buy or build my own and still do it with just regular tech salaries on the side!
  - monoideism 6y ago
    > 100-200k range Yeah, that's a lot more than a cheap boat. You can get a lot of boat for 50k - like a Boston Whaler 190 Montauk. Not yacht, but boat. And not sure what you're making, but that's a pretty damn expensive hobby for most of us.
japanuspus 6y ago
Good point. The admin and teaching parts of a tenure-track position would likely take way more than your normal working time, so you might end up with more time for doing research.
- SiempreViernes 6y ago
  You need a real cushy job to get enough time and energy for the second job that would be the research. And a tenure-track position usually comes with some workforce or at the very least a good network of experts to refer to. There are of course really shit academic positions, but you'll anyway not have time for research if you have a really shit job, so that objections seems to cancel.
yowlingcat 6y ago
> You really can do whatever you want, you'll just be limited by money than by other people :) I think that your idea is the practical one and you'll get a lot of mileage out of it, but may I add one more limiting constraint, one I've had to learn to respect from experience? That constraint is mental energy. Your job in tech has constraints that mean if you're doing it right and are working in a role that's pushing you to your full potential, you won't have enough mental energy at the end of the day to work on your side projects. While that might be disappointing, it's often a lot better than the alternative: if you select for a cushy job which has great WLB, you may experience a level of disillusionment from stasis that can also make it hard to want to work on things outside of work. I wish I had an easy answer to this stuff but I don't. Long-term, if you have a stable career in tech, it makes it a lot easier to take time off for sabbaticals or periods of startup work (yours or others) because you can return to a well-compensated career that's pleasant and will give you enormous surplus lifetime earnings -- a perfect match for scientific work on the side, as you put it! But it's still a career. To get growth you'll be happy with, it will take the lion's share of your mental energy and strategic planning, over a long period of time. Good fortune aside, there's often no way around that.

foota 6y ago

I can't tell if 2 body problem is a play on words for a relationship or simply a physics problem. :thinking:

eindiran 6y ago
It's a play on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-body_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-body_problem But referring to a relationship, and the difficulty of finding a location that works for both people in a relationship. See: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=two-body%20problem https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=two-body%20p... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-body_problem_(career) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-body_problem_(career)