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I use in-app purchases as well. My first thought was "being in Europe, am I safe from this?". AFAIK Europe does not have software patents, so I should be safe.

I use in-app purchases as well. My first thought was "being in Europe, am I safe from this?". AFAIK Europe does not have software patents, so I should be safe. But IANAL and my understanding of this subject is quite poor. Does anybody have a good answer?

whyleyc 15y ago
Well one of those hit is James Thomson who is based in Glasgow, Scotland so from the p.o.v. of the suer the answer to your question is "no". In terms of European s/w patents, sadly according to the FSF: "In Europe the legislation has decided that software is not patentable. But laws are always interpreted by people, and in this case interpretations of the law differ. So the European Patents Office (EPO) grants software patents by declaring them as "computer implemented inventions" Source: http://fsfe.org/projects/swpat/swpat.en.html http://fsfe.org/projects/swpat/swpat.en.html
- tomh- 15y ago
  I very much doubt he has an European patent on "in-app purchases", so my bet is that they threaten to sue him in the US. I'm not sure if the outcome is enforceable in Europe though.
  - pieter 15y ago
    That doesn't really matter if they can just force Apple (a US company) to pull it from the app store.
    - DrJokepu 15y ago
      Actually, the App Store in Europe is provided by iTunes S.à r.l, a Luxembourg (EU) company, not Apple Inc., so a US court can't really force anything to be pulled from the App Store in Europe.
roc 15y ago
[IANAL] If you only sell your software in countries that either don't recognize software patents, or in which the plaintiff doesn't hold a patent that you infringe upon, you're fine. [1] But if you sell your software in the US, you are not safe. Foreign firms pay a pretty penny for US patents and searches to determine if they are clear of infringing US patents, so they can sell their products in the US. Software patents included. Again, IANAL. [1] Determining whether you may infringe on a patent is a chore in and of itself. And one that any IP lawyer will advise you strongly not to do yourself. If you look and infringe, the wronged party can potentially argue that you saw their patent and infringed anyway [2], which leads to far worse penalties than infringing due ignorance. [2] And as it is very difficult to show what you didn't see, it's very difficult to defend against that accusation other than via an in-stone policy that the actual engineers and inventors never ever do searches themselves.
- masklinn 15y ago
  IANAL, but what would happen anyway? They would sue him in the US (maybe), would get a default ruling in a civil court, and then what? The only issue might be if he moves to the US. At worst.
  - roc 15y ago
    Basically, until they get legal satisfaction for the judgment, they could make a mess of any business he wants to do in the US or with US-based companies. Any money owed to him by any US company would be at-risk of a claim. These risks are notably less to a developer if they've incorporated, or are selling the software through a publisher. But for the lone developer, it could be quite the hassle. Also, though the real costs of pursuing such claims might deter actual action by the patent holder, the risk doesn't go away and the 'debt' resulting from the judgment could be sold to people who have lower opportunity cost and even less moral fiber.

whyleyc 15y ago

Well one of those hit is James Thomson who is based in Glasgow, Scotland so from the p.o.v. of the suer the answer to your question is "no". In terms of European s/w patents, sadly according to the FSF: "In Europe the legislation has decided that software is not patentable. But laws are always interpreted by people, and in this case interpretations of the law differ. So the European Patents Office (EPO) grants software patents by declaring them as "computer implemented inventions" Source: http://fsfe.org/projects/swpat/swpat.en.html http://fsfe.org/projects/swpat/swpat.en.html

tomh- 15y ago
I very much doubt he has an European patent on "in-app purchases", so my bet is that they threaten to sue him in the US. I'm not sure if the outcome is enforceable in Europe though.
- pieter 15y ago
  That doesn't really matter if they can just force Apple (a US company) to pull it from the app store.
  - DrJokepu 15y ago
    Actually, the App Store in Europe is provided by iTunes S.à r.l, a Luxembourg (EU) company, not Apple Inc., so a US court can't really force anything to be pulled from the App Store in Europe.

roc 15y ago

[IANAL] If you only sell your software in countries that either don't recognize software patents, or in which the plaintiff doesn't hold a patent that you infringe upon, you're fine. [1] But if you sell your software in the US, you are not safe. Foreign firms pay a pretty penny for US patents and searches to determine if they are clear of infringing US patents, so they can sell their products in the US. Software patents included. Again, IANAL. [1] Determining whether you may infringe on a patent is a chore in and of itself. And one that any IP lawyer will advise you strongly not to do yourself. If you look and infringe, the wronged party can potentially argue that you saw their patent and infringed anyway [2], which leads to far worse penalties than infringing due ignorance. [2] And as it is very difficult to show what you didn't see, it's very difficult to defend against that accusation other than via an in-stone policy that the actual engineers and inventors never ever do searches themselves.

masklinn 15y ago
IANAL, but what would happen anyway? They would sue him in the US (maybe), would get a default ruling in a civil court, and then what? The only issue might be if he moves to the US. At worst.
- roc 15y ago
  Basically, until they get legal satisfaction for the judgment, they could make a mess of any business he wants to do in the US or with US-based companies. Any money owed to him by any US company would be at-risk of a claim. These risks are notably less to a developer if they've incorporated, or are selling the software through a publisher. But for the lone developer, it could be quite the hassle. Also, though the real costs of pursuing such claims might deter actual action by the patent holder, the risk doesn't go away and the 'debt' resulting from the judgment could be sold to people who have lower opportunity cost and even less moral fiber.