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I hope this will lead to changes in roads in London and other places. The closest school to me in London is next to a busy road with twice the legal level of n

by stuaxo 6y ago

I hope this will lead to changes in roads in London and other places. The closest school to me in London is next to a busy road with twice the legal level of no2, you can see all the buildings along that road are noticeably blacker from exhaust smoke. While electric cars may help a bit, rubber from breaking and tyres is an issue, and cares have been getting much bigger over the last 5 years.

CraigJPerry 6y ago
>> While electric cars may help a bit, rubber from breaking and tyres is an issue In what way are they an issue? Tyre emissions are around 1/20th of the PM2.5 ejected from the exhaust and the airborne proportion is even smaller. Edit: "Committee on the Medical Effects of Air Pollutants" has a fairly non-commital "needs more study" finding but they did say "Non-exhaust particulate matter (PM) emissions, ie from brake wear, tyre wear, road surface wear and re-suspended road dust currently comprise just under 10% of UK primary particulate emissions and they are expected to become proportionately more important, as vehicle exhaust PM emissions from road transport are expected to decrease over the coming years" https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/917308/COMEAP_Statement__on_the__evidence__for__health__effects__associated__with__exposure_to_non_exhaust_particulate_matter_from_road_transport_-COMEAP-Statement-non-exhaust-PM-health-effects.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- xiphias2 6y ago
  Also PM2.5 is easy to filter out. Any cheap device can filter it out quite efficiently. For NO2 I tried all the most expensive devices, and none of them worked :(
  - GordonS 6y ago
    This might be a silly question, but how would you filter stuff "emitted" by tyres?
    - xiphias2 6y ago
      I'm not a scientist, just an asthmatic person. All I can tell you is that I am so far not sensitive to electric cars at all. Regarding PM2 and NO2, I bought decices to measure them, that's why I have these results.
    - jfk13 6y ago
      As it happens, an article related to this came up just a couple of weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25246857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25246857
- andylynch 6y ago
  New research is also showing that type particles are a far bigger source of pollution in waterways than anyone seems to have expected, both in particulates and dissolved chemicals.
- Aachen 6y ago
  That is super interesting, I had no idea. Never even heard the word combo "tyre emissions" before. Thanks for sharing!
goodpoint 6y ago
Electric cars still have a significant environmental impact due to the space they take in a city, the production and recycling of the cars, and road maintenance. The efficiency of combined use of trains, electric buses and bicycles dwarfs electric cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transport
- VBprogrammer 6y ago
  I don't know about anyone else, I'm pretty far from being a germaphobe in everyday life, but the idea of returning to packed trains and busses turns my stomach. I'm sure this will pass in a surprisingly short amount of time but for the moment I'm glad that I can work from home and doing so has the lowest environmental impact I can muster.
  - goodpoint 6y ago
    Covid did wonders for the environment in the societies that choose to encourage remote working. Yet, doing short trips by feet or bike is equally sustainable - and healthier than sitting all day.
- dfgdghdf 6y ago
  Bicycles can even be considered carbon negative if someone combines their daily exercise with their commute.
- sjg007 6y ago
  There's no way you will get rid of cars. Maybe it is easier to contain the externalities of electric cars than others.
lambdadmitry 6y ago
Is the road or the school itself over the legal level of NO2? It does dissipate quite quickly, so it's important. Dust and particular matter scares are definitely overblown. I live in zone 1, first floor with windows overlooking a small road, and I hardly ever saw PM25 level going over 2ug/m3 in a year I've measured it. Compare that to the safe long term exposure level of 10ug/m3 set by the WHO.
zajio1am 6y ago
In electric cars particulates from braking are also hugely reduced, as most braking is done by engine / recuperation.
- olivermarks 6y ago
  Tire and road surface degradation are a very major source of air pollution and an important focus to reduce particulates https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations/pollution-from-tire-wear-1000-times-worse-than-exhaust-emissions.html https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations...

by stuaxo 6y ago

CraigJPerry 6y ago

>> While electric cars may help a bit, rubber from breaking and tyres is an issue In what way are they an issue? Tyre emissions are around 1/20th of the PM2.5 ejected from the exhaust and the airborne proportion is even smaller. Edit: "Committee on the Medical Effects of Air Pollutants" has a fairly non-commital "needs more study" finding but they did say "Non-exhaust particulate matter (PM) emissions, ie from brake wear, tyre wear, road surface wear and re-suspended road dust currently comprise just under 10% of UK primary particulate emissions and they are expected to become proportionately more important, as vehicle exhaust PM emissions from road transport are expected to decrease over the coming years" https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/917308/COMEAP_Statement__on_the__evidence__for__health__effects__associated__with__exposure_to_non_exhaust_particulate_matter_from_road_transport_-COMEAP-Statement-non-exhaust-PM-health-effects.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
xiphias2 6y ago
Also PM2.5 is easy to filter out. Any cheap device can filter it out quite efficiently. For NO2 I tried all the most expensive devices, and none of them worked :(
- GordonS 6y ago
  This might be a silly question, but how would you filter stuff "emitted" by tyres?
  - xiphias2 6y ago
    I'm not a scientist, just an asthmatic person. All I can tell you is that I am so far not sensitive to electric cars at all. Regarding PM2 and NO2, I bought decices to measure them, that's why I have these results.
  - jfk13 6y ago
    As it happens, an article related to this came up just a couple of weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25246857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25246857
andylynch 6y ago
New research is also showing that type particles are a far bigger source of pollution in waterways than anyone seems to have expected, both in particulates and dissolved chemicals.
Aachen 6y ago
That is super interesting, I had no idea. Never even heard the word combo "tyre emissions" before. Thanks for sharing!

goodpoint 6y ago

Electric cars still have a significant environmental impact due to the space they take in a city, the production and recycling of the cars, and road maintenance. The efficiency of combined use of trains, electric buses and bicycles dwarfs electric cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transport

VBprogrammer 6y ago
I don't know about anyone else, I'm pretty far from being a germaphobe in everyday life, but the idea of returning to packed trains and busses turns my stomach. I'm sure this will pass in a surprisingly short amount of time but for the moment I'm glad that I can work from home and doing so has the lowest environmental impact I can muster.
- goodpoint 6y ago
  Covid did wonders for the environment in the societies that choose to encourage remote working. Yet, doing short trips by feet or bike is equally sustainable - and healthier than sitting all day.
dfgdghdf 6y ago
Bicycles can even be considered carbon negative if someone combines their daily exercise with their commute.
sjg007 6y ago
There's no way you will get rid of cars. Maybe it is easier to contain the externalities of electric cars than others.

lambdadmitry 6y ago

Is the road or the school itself over the legal level of NO2? It does dissipate quite quickly, so it's important. Dust and particular matter scares are definitely overblown. I live in zone 1, first floor with windows overlooking a small road, and I hardly ever saw PM25 level going over 2ug/m3 in a year I've measured it. Compare that to the safe long term exposure level of 10ug/m3 set by the WHO.

zajio1am 6y ago

In electric cars particulates from braking are also hugely reduced, as most braking is done by engine / recuperation.

olivermarks 6y ago
Tire and road surface degradation are a very major source of air pollution and an important focus to reduce particulates https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations/pollution-from-tire-wear-1000-times-worse-than-exhaust-emissions.html https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations...