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> BTC works perfectly fine without carbon output I’m not sure I follow this (admittedly I don’t know much about how BTC actually works). Doesn’t mining also s

> BTC works perfectly fine without carbon output I’m not sure I follow this (admittedly I don’t know much about how BTC actually works). Doesn’t mining also serve the purpose of verifying transactions?

rodiger 6y ago
Yes- the OP means to say the issue isn't necessarily the tech but how the energy powering the tech is generated. For example a large amount of miners in China run on the cheapest local electricity source which happens to be hydroelectric.
paulgb 6y ago
I think GP is saying that the energy can come from non-carbon-emitting sources, which is technically true but besides the point. Bitcoin mining currently incentivizes tremendous carbon emissions, higher per dollar than other forms of money.
- garmaine 6y ago
  Except that this isn’t true. Bitcoin currently uses 80-90% renewable sources or opportunistic power capture, which is effectively zero-carbon. The incentives of bitcoin mining drive this, since carbon-neutral energy sources have lower marginal costs.
  - paulgb 6y ago
    Here’s a recent study from Cambridge that puts it at 39%. The studies I’ve seen with higher numbers always seem to be funded by firms involved in crypto trading. https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternative-finance/publications/3rd-global-cryptoasset-benchmarking-study https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternati...
    - garmaine 6y ago
      39% renewable, which is actually higher than I expected. I said renewable and opportunistic power capture. The latter is a large proportion of mining because it is effectively free income. There are a lot of places in the world where excess power is generated and wasted because there aren’t uses on site. Bitcoin mining is a relatively cheap way to offset cost of operations in these areas.
      - paulgb 6y ago
        Where does the 80-90% number come from, though? Is that just you speculating or has someone come up with that estimate?
johnpaulkiser 6y ago
No, node software verifies transactions. Miners are supposed to also verify transactions because they should also run a validating node. There have been blocks in the past mined by miners who did not verify the transactions before putting them in the blocks (doing this would give you competitive edge) only to find out that the rest of the network rejected their blocks.

rodiger 6y ago

Yes- the OP means to say the issue isn't necessarily the tech but how the energy powering the tech is generated. For example a large amount of miners in China run on the cheapest local electricity source which happens to be hydroelectric.

paulgb 6y ago

I think GP is saying that the energy can come from non-carbon-emitting sources, which is technically true but besides the point. Bitcoin mining currently incentivizes tremendous carbon emissions, higher per dollar than other forms of money.

garmaine 6y ago
Except that this isn’t true. Bitcoin currently uses 80-90% renewable sources or opportunistic power capture, which is effectively zero-carbon. The incentives of bitcoin mining drive this, since carbon-neutral energy sources have lower marginal costs.
- paulgb 6y ago
  Here’s a recent study from Cambridge that puts it at 39%. The studies I’ve seen with higher numbers always seem to be funded by firms involved in crypto trading. https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternative-finance/publications/3rd-global-cryptoasset-benchmarking-study https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternati...
  - garmaine 6y ago
    39% renewable, which is actually higher than I expected. I said renewable and opportunistic power capture. The latter is a large proportion of mining because it is effectively free income. There are a lot of places in the world where excess power is generated and wasted because there aren’t uses on site. Bitcoin mining is a relatively cheap way to offset cost of operations in these areas.
    - paulgb 6y ago
      Where does the 80-90% number come from, though? Is that just you speculating or has someone come up with that estimate?

johnpaulkiser 6y ago

No, node software verifies transactions. Miners are supposed to also verify transactions because they should also run a validating node. There have been blocks in the past mined by miners who did not verify the transactions before putting them in the blocks (doing this would give you competitive edge) only to find out that the rest of the network rejected their blocks.