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BTC works perfectly fine without carbon output, its depends on energy creation though (just like any other form of money). The Paris agreement was a big step mo

BTC works perfectly fine without carbon output, its depends on energy creation though (just like any other form of money). The Paris agreement was a big step moving humanity towards sustainable energy. US made progress in voting for a politician who promised to join the Paris agreement again. We'll see whether it will really happen.

zpeti 6y ago
The Paris agreement was not enforceable, and the US is one of the countries that has actually done most to reduce carbon output. But hey, at least the rest of world leaders are virtue signaling about their greenness, that’ll help the planet!
- xiphias2 6y ago
  US leadership was actively pushing for rolling back energy standards (that California was fighting for quite strongly). US has achieved a lot (especially Tesla) _despite_ the leadership working against it for a long time.
  - j0ba 6y ago
    True. Unfortunately many still think a centrally planned system of picking winners and losers is superior to the free market, but luckily the past 4 years was enough to send capable entrepreneurs such as Elon Musk into the stratosphere (and beyond).
    - leogiertz 6y ago
      I don’t know, we all owe Germany quite a bit for their solar subsidies.
haram_masala 6y ago
> BTC works perfectly fine without carbon output I’m not sure I follow this (admittedly I don’t know much about how BTC actually works). Doesn’t mining also serve the purpose of verifying transactions?
- rodiger 6y ago
  Yes- the OP means to say the issue isn't necessarily the tech but how the energy powering the tech is generated. For example a large amount of miners in China run on the cheapest local electricity source which happens to be hydroelectric.
- paulgb 6y ago
  I think GP is saying that the energy can come from non-carbon-emitting sources, which is technically true but besides the point. Bitcoin mining currently incentivizes tremendous carbon emissions, higher per dollar than other forms of money.
  - garmaine 6y ago
    Except that this isn’t true. Bitcoin currently uses 80-90% renewable sources or opportunistic power capture, which is effectively zero-carbon. The incentives of bitcoin mining drive this, since carbon-neutral energy sources have lower marginal costs.
    - paulgb 6y ago
      Here’s a recent study from Cambridge that puts it at 39%. The studies I’ve seen with higher numbers always seem to be funded by firms involved in crypto trading. https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternative-finance/publications/3rd-global-cryptoasset-benchmarking-study https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternati...
      - garmaine 6y ago
        39% renewable, which is actually higher than I expected. I said renewable and opportunistic power capture. The latter is a large proportion of mining because it is effectively free income. There are a lot of places in the world where excess power is generated and wasted because there aren’t uses on site. Bitcoin mining is a relatively cheap way to offset cost of operations in these areas.
snicksnak 6y ago
> The Paris agreement was a big step moving humanity towards sustainable energy How so? That is a non binding resolution where the world's greatest polluters are still allowed to increase their carbon footprint. Countries receive all sorts of praise for signing it and their so called commitment to "battle climate change", even though it's still business as usually, but at least they signed it I guess. And since a lot of mining is done in countries where the majority of their energy comes from fossil energy sources it has a footprint.

zpeti 6y ago

The Paris agreement was not enforceable, and the US is one of the countries that has actually done most to reduce carbon output. But hey, at least the rest of world leaders are virtue signaling about their greenness, that’ll help the planet!

xiphias2 6y ago
US leadership was actively pushing for rolling back energy standards (that California was fighting for quite strongly). US has achieved a lot (especially Tesla) _despite_ the leadership working against it for a long time.
- j0ba 6y ago
  True. Unfortunately many still think a centrally planned system of picking winners and losers is superior to the free market, but luckily the past 4 years was enough to send capable entrepreneurs such as Elon Musk into the stratosphere (and beyond).
  - leogiertz 6y ago
    I don’t know, we all owe Germany quite a bit for their solar subsidies.

haram_masala 6y ago

> BTC works perfectly fine without carbon output I’m not sure I follow this (admittedly I don’t know much about how BTC actually works). Doesn’t mining also serve the purpose of verifying transactions?

rodiger 6y ago
Yes- the OP means to say the issue isn't necessarily the tech but how the energy powering the tech is generated. For example a large amount of miners in China run on the cheapest local electricity source which happens to be hydroelectric.
paulgb 6y ago
I think GP is saying that the energy can come from non-carbon-emitting sources, which is technically true but besides the point. Bitcoin mining currently incentivizes tremendous carbon emissions, higher per dollar than other forms of money.
- garmaine 6y ago
  Except that this isn’t true. Bitcoin currently uses 80-90% renewable sources or opportunistic power capture, which is effectively zero-carbon. The incentives of bitcoin mining drive this, since carbon-neutral energy sources have lower marginal costs.
  - paulgb 6y ago
    Here’s a recent study from Cambridge that puts it at 39%. The studies I’ve seen with higher numbers always seem to be funded by firms involved in crypto trading. https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternative-finance/publications/3rd-global-cryptoasset-benchmarking-study https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternati...
    - garmaine 6y ago
      39% renewable, which is actually higher than I expected. I said renewable and opportunistic power capture. The latter is a large proportion of mining because it is effectively free income. There are a lot of places in the world where excess power is generated and wasted because there aren’t uses on site. Bitcoin mining is a relatively cheap way to offset cost of operations in these areas.

snicksnak 6y ago

> The Paris agreement was a big step moving humanity towards sustainable energy How so? That is a non binding resolution where the world's greatest polluters are still allowed to increase their carbon footprint. Countries receive all sorts of praise for signing it and their so called commitment to "battle climate change", even though it's still business as usually, but at least they signed it I guess. And since a lot of mining is done in countries where the majority of their energy comes from fossil energy sources it has a footprint.