4 ms·

I remember wanting to learn lisp. I got stuck and reached out to the community for help. And found them to be very hostile. I decided I had better things to d

I remember wanting to learn lisp. I got stuck and reached out to the community for help. And found them to be very hostile. I decided I had better things to do with my time.

Jtsummers 6y ago
As a counter-anecdote (giving us anecdata), I did not have this issue when I got started. r/lisp and comp.lang.lisp were pretty welcoming. I don't do much on IRC, but my limited time there was productive and friendly. There were (probably still are) a few assholes and zealots on comp.lang.lisp, but they were easy enough to ignore (killfiles are your friends). I think some people also got a bit testy and short there because of the trolls. People like Jon Harrop liked to go on there and basically say, "You're all morons and lisp is useless garbage here's why..." as a way of promoting F#. It was incredibly obnoxious, and I recall during his time as a troll there people becoming overly sensitive to other posts that looked like trolling but were meant in earnest. This would have been off-putting if you got caught in the crossfire.
- roberthahn 6y ago
  I’m glad you had a better experience than I. I tried learning CL back in 2006 and read a quickstart guide from the #lisp IRC channel. It had sentences in it like: “ Using a plain text editor without any runtime connection to your Lisp implementation just because you think you prefer its keybindings is stupid and self-defeating.” And “Follow these directions or risk our wrath, or at least unsympathetic attitudes!” The document, mercifully, doesn’t appear to exist any more. Maybe when I called them on it at the time they realized that maybe there’s a better way and changed it. But it definitely made a poor first impression.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    Yeah. I think you were looking at it near the end of the "smug lisp weenie" era. Looking at some content from the early 00s does not give a favorable impression of the CL community or its attitudes. I came into it about the same time, but started paying attention to the community proper circa 2008. By then, I think the efforts to popularize the language and grow the community had tempered it quite a bit.
  - klibertp 6y ago
    You could mention that it was almost 15 years ago in your previous post. That's more than enough time for the whole community attitudes to change, and they did.
  - susam 6y ago
    I have been hanging out on IRC since 2006 too. The open source communities back then were indeed caustic. #python was an exception. #python used to be very nice to beginners. #c was perhaps the worst. The attitude of these communities has changed a lot since then. It has been 14 years since then! Right now, #lisp and #emacs and their Reddit counterparts r/lisp and r/emacs are a very pleasant, friendly, and supportive community. For those looking to becoming a part of the Lisp or Emacs community, I strongly recommend giving #lisp, #emacs, r/lisp, and r/emacs a chance.
flavio81 6y ago
>And found them to be very hostile. I started 4 years ago. They are very helpful and friendly. Just approach them with a genuine interest.

I remember wanting to learn lisp. I got stuck and reached out to the community for help. And found them to be very hostile. I decided I had better things to do with my time.

Jtsummers 6y ago

As a counter-anecdote (giving us anecdata), I did not have this issue when I got started. r/lisp and comp.lang.lisp were pretty welcoming. I don't do much on IRC, but my limited time there was productive and friendly. There were (probably still are) a few assholes and zealots on comp.lang.lisp, but they were easy enough to ignore (killfiles are your friends). I think some people also got a bit testy and short there because of the trolls. People like Jon Harrop liked to go on there and basically say, "You're all morons and lisp is useless garbage here's why..." as a way of promoting F#. It was incredibly obnoxious, and I recall during his time as a troll there people becoming overly sensitive to other posts that looked like trolling but were meant in earnest. This would have been off-putting if you got caught in the crossfire.

roberthahn 6y ago
I’m glad you had a better experience than I. I tried learning CL back in 2006 and read a quickstart guide from the #lisp IRC channel. It had sentences in it like: “ Using a plain text editor without any runtime connection to your Lisp implementation just because you think you prefer its keybindings is stupid and self-defeating.” And “Follow these directions or risk our wrath, or at least unsympathetic attitudes!” The document, mercifully, doesn’t appear to exist any more. Maybe when I called them on it at the time they realized that maybe there’s a better way and changed it. But it definitely made a poor first impression.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  Yeah. I think you were looking at it near the end of the "smug lisp weenie" era. Looking at some content from the early 00s does not give a favorable impression of the CL community or its attitudes. I came into it about the same time, but started paying attention to the community proper circa 2008. By then, I think the efforts to popularize the language and grow the community had tempered it quite a bit.
- klibertp 6y ago
  You could mention that it was almost 15 years ago in your previous post. That's more than enough time for the whole community attitudes to change, and they did.
- susam 6y ago
  I have been hanging out on IRC since 2006 too. The open source communities back then were indeed caustic. #python was an exception. #python used to be very nice to beginners. #c was perhaps the worst. The attitude of these communities has changed a lot since then. It has been 14 years since then! Right now, #lisp and #emacs and their Reddit counterparts r/lisp and r/emacs are a very pleasant, friendly, and supportive community. For those looking to becoming a part of the Lisp or Emacs community, I strongly recommend giving #lisp, #emacs, r/lisp, and r/emacs a chance.

flavio81 6y ago

>And found them to be very hostile. I started 4 years ago. They are very helpful and friendly. Just approach them with a genuine interest.