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If you did this with a bank you’d be up shit creek as well.

by qz2 6y ago

anamexis 6y ago
If you did what with a bank? You can't accidentally send money to a black hole with a bank.
- gruez 6y ago
  But you can? https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/28/how-to-avoid-invoice-theft-scam-that-cost-google-facebook-123m.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/28/how-to-avoid-invoice-theft-s... >Neither company explained to CNBC how they were able to recover the stolen funds. In most cases, they’re lost forever.
  - anamexis 6y ago
    That isn't sending money to a black hole, that's sending money to a fraudster. Granted, that is still losing money irreversibly, but it's not the same thing.
NicoJuicy 6y ago
In Europe, you are required to return funds not meant for you.
thatguyagain 6y ago
Nope, depends on the situation and which country.
SamBam 6y ago
No you wouldn't. You could almost certainly recover the money. If you wire money to the wrong place, and that person won't return it, that's theft. Likewise, if someone suddenly receives an unexpected million dollars in the account, they should not consider spending it -- that would be a big mistake.
- consp 6y ago
  Only as a company or government, as a person you are usually out of luck and get a "bank says no".
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- gruez 6y ago
  >If you wire money to the wrong place, and that person won't return it, that's theft. maybe, but good luck prosecuting/recovering it if it's outside your country's jurisdiction.
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    Thankfully, accidentally transferring money abroad is not trivial. It being not user friendly is an advantage there. It often takes time to process as well, so while it's still pending you can undo the transfer. Over here, for a European transfer you need to fill in an IBAN number, which contains the country code of the destination. The transfer will fail as well if you don't provide the right name with the number. For international transfers, you need to provide even more information like BIC numbers, etc. With crypto, it's a random address. If you or someone else manipulates the address by even a single bit, it's gone.
  - AndrewStephens 6y ago
    Two things: It is quite hard to wire money to the wrong address. There are a lot of checks and I have been quite impressed with every bank I have dealt with being diligent in ringing me up to confirm the details, even for relatively small amounts. Secondly, unless the destination person/organization is actually criminal, reversing a mistake is usually a phone call/polite letter away. If that fails then the legal system is there. I guess wiring money to a criminal by mistake is possible but it seems unlikely. Deliberately wiring money to a criminal is very possible but you are on your own there. And even then it should be possible to track them down using the destination bank account unless the bank itself is shady. Crypto has all of the disadvantages of wiring money (I guess it is usually cheaper) with none of the advantages.
jtbayly 6y ago
Nope. Literally just wired money to a wrong account number (banker mistyped one digit). It was sent back. Sure, if you get tricked into wiring to a fraudster, they can keep your money. However, nothing in the banking system is like this unless you put your money as cash in a bag and burn it.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  You can even take burnt cash to the bank and have them reimburse you, as long as it's still recognizable.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Nope; banks can and will reverse transfers, and if the money was transferred fraudulently, THEY will take the blame for it (because in essence their security failed, even if you are the one that initiated the transfer). Banks have a fund to compensate victims, and banks are connected to national and international banks and regulatory bodies (like the ECB) to get you out of shit creek if there is a problem. Banks are not perfect, but at least they pay up if you run into one of those imperfections. Usually.
- nootropicat 6y ago
  Banks (especially banks in the same country) can send funds back, that's not the same thing as reversing the transfer. Both SEPA and SWIFT transfers are irreversible. It's even possible to steal money from a central bank by transferring money away with SWIFT. The only real difference is that it's not legal to keep mistakenly sent funds, making irreversible mistakes less likely to happen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery
mrlala 6y ago
You don't know what you are talking about. I mean hell, when I was in the UK our landlord gave us the wrong banking info and we were paying for 6 months to the wrong account! I don't know how our landlords went 6 months without knowing they weren't getting paid.. but once they told us I called the bank and they were able to contact the owner of the account it was going into and pull the funds back to the correct account. Now sure if the owner of this "wrong" account was doing something sketchy it would have been more complicated, but there still would have been as full of recourse as possible. It's not your money just because the bank puts wrong money in your acct. And sure wire's are a bit more complicated.. But yeah- end of the day the banks are able to do something if it's legit.
happytoexplain 6y ago
Absolutely not - I've had banks reverse my transactions multiple times without even contacting the 3rd party.

If you did this with a bank you’d be up shit creek as well.

by qz2 6y ago

If you did this with a bank you’d be up shit creek as well.

anamexis 6y ago

If you did what with a bank? You can't accidentally send money to a black hole with a bank.

gruez 6y ago
But you can? https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/28/how-to-avoid-invoice-theft-scam-that-cost-google-facebook-123m.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/28/how-to-avoid-invoice-theft-s... >Neither company explained to CNBC how they were able to recover the stolen funds. In most cases, they’re lost forever.
- anamexis 6y ago
  That isn't sending money to a black hole, that's sending money to a fraudster. Granted, that is still losing money irreversibly, but it's not the same thing.

NicoJuicy 6y ago

In Europe, you are required to return funds not meant for you.

thatguyagain 6y ago

Nope, depends on the situation and which country.

SamBam 6y ago

No you wouldn't. You could almost certainly recover the money. If you wire money to the wrong place, and that person won't return it, that's theft. Likewise, if someone suddenly receives an unexpected million dollars in the account, they should not consider spending it -- that would be a big mistake.

consp 6y ago
Only as a company or government, as a person you are usually out of luck and get a "bank says no".
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
gruez 6y ago
>If you wire money to the wrong place, and that person won't return it, that's theft. maybe, but good luck prosecuting/recovering it if it's outside your country's jurisdiction.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  Thankfully, accidentally transferring money abroad is not trivial. It being not user friendly is an advantage there. It often takes time to process as well, so while it's still pending you can undo the transfer. Over here, for a European transfer you need to fill in an IBAN number, which contains the country code of the destination. The transfer will fail as well if you don't provide the right name with the number. For international transfers, you need to provide even more information like BIC numbers, etc. With crypto, it's a random address. If you or someone else manipulates the address by even a single bit, it's gone.
- AndrewStephens 6y ago
  Two things: It is quite hard to wire money to the wrong address. There are a lot of checks and I have been quite impressed with every bank I have dealt with being diligent in ringing me up to confirm the details, even for relatively small amounts. Secondly, unless the destination person/organization is actually criminal, reversing a mistake is usually a phone call/polite letter away. If that fails then the legal system is there. I guess wiring money to a criminal by mistake is possible but it seems unlikely. Deliberately wiring money to a criminal is very possible but you are on your own there. And even then it should be possible to track them down using the destination bank account unless the bank itself is shady. Crypto has all of the disadvantages of wiring money (I guess it is usually cheaper) with none of the advantages.

jtbayly 6y ago

Nope. Literally just wired money to a wrong account number (banker mistyped one digit). It was sent back. Sure, if you get tricked into wiring to a fraudster, they can keep your money. However, nothing in the banking system is like this unless you put your money as cash in a bag and burn it.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago
You can even take burnt cash to the bank and have them reimburse you, as long as it's still recognizable.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

Nope; banks can and will reverse transfers, and if the money was transferred fraudulently, THEY will take the blame for it (because in essence their security failed, even if you are the one that initiated the transfer). Banks have a fund to compensate victims, and banks are connected to national and international banks and regulatory bodies (like the ECB) to get you out of shit creek if there is a problem. Banks are not perfect, but at least they pay up if you run into one of those imperfections. Usually.

nootropicat 6y ago
Banks (especially banks in the same country) can send funds back, that's not the same thing as reversing the transfer. Both SEPA and SWIFT transfers are irreversible. It's even possible to steal money from a central bank by transferring money away with SWIFT. The only real difference is that it's not legal to keep mistakenly sent funds, making irreversible mistakes less likely to happen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery

mrlala 6y ago

You don't know what you are talking about. I mean hell, when I was in the UK our landlord gave us the wrong banking info and we were paying for 6 months to the wrong account! I don't know how our landlords went 6 months without knowing they weren't getting paid.. but once they told us I called the bank and they were able to contact the owner of the account it was going into and pull the funds back to the correct account. Now sure if the owner of this "wrong" account was doing something sketchy it would have been more complicated, but there still would have been as full of recourse as possible. It's not your money just because the bank puts wrong money in your acct. And sure wire's are a bit more complicated.. But yeah- end of the day the banks are able to do something if it's legit.

happytoexplain 6y ago

Absolutely not - I've had banks reverse my transactions multiple times without even contacting the 3rd party.