7 ms·

I feel a duty to point out the white washing. Nathan made his money on the basis of patent trolling, his firm being the world's largest patent troll. Journalis

I feel a duty to point out the white washing. Nathan made his money on the basis of patent trolling, his firm being the world's largest patent troll. Journalists never mention the "where does this persom get the money to spend their time on complex cooking books and unique camera rigs". The answer being "he is a billionaire by taxing every one just a little bit". Like a new age king he spends his tax revenue on vanity projects. Sure none of us pay him much. At most a couple pennies every device. But if you ever wonder why the patent system is so broken: remember his face.

uptown 6y ago
For more background: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Myhrvold#Intellectual_Ventures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Myhrvold#Intellectual_V...
cunac 6y ago
what is wrong for getting paid for non-trivial patent? You have choice of using or not. It is not upon you to make a choice it must be free.
- crispyambulance 6y ago
  You should read up on how the practice of "patent trolling" actually works. You will quickly find it's profoundly toxic to innovation, creativity, and progress. It's antithetical to almost everyone's values save for extremely greedy people and their lawyers. Whether the patent is "trivial" or not doesn't even matter to these people. All that matters for them is that they can extract money.
- javajosh 6y ago
  Patent trolls make money by doing (very) lose pattern matching between what you do and the patent they hold, and then they demand an amount that they expect you to compare to the legal costs of arguing your point rather than the utility of the idea. It is a "gotcha" business model that is rightly reviled; the victims don't "choose" to use a patent, but rather the assertion of use is used as leverage by Myrvohld's company, and is expensive to defend regardless of merit. Therefore it is in their interest to assert every patent against every entity with any assets to take. It is very unfortunate that the justice system is so broken as to make this a viable business model. There are cases of stealing, but there are far more cases of businesses doing normal things and receiving claims out-of-the-blue that they have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to defend.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  The difference is when the patents are ridiculous or, to a layman, obvious. Take commenting on the internet; imagine that HN had to pay an x amount for each comment posted, because someone patented (and I'm sure someone HAS patented) the combination of a text input box and a submit button. Imagine YOU had to pay for that privilege. There's a few good stories out there; google for patent troll in combination with newegg or cloudflare.
rubidium 6y ago
Yes, the patent system has problems. But waging a personal vendetta against the person's hobbies is petty. Sounds like he had the money to pursue this well before his patent business, as he was CTO of Microsoft....so that point it just mud-smearing.
- pc86 6y ago
  It seems less "waging a personal vendetta against the person's hobbies" and more "acknowledging that this is an amoral human being who is perpetuating a broken system for personal gain."
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >acknowledging that this is an amoral human being Morality play, much? People are nuanced, not just "moral vs amoral"... Intellectual Ventures exploits the market for inventions and patents, buying patents from companies and inventors under the assumption the patents will be more valuable in the future. (...) Startup companies spun out of IV, including Kymeta, Echodyne, and TerraPower, have developed commercial products from IV's inventions. Through its Global Good unit, which Myhrvold founded in collaboration with Bill Gates, IV has also invented and produced commercial products, such as improved vaccine coolers and milking cans, aimed at low-income markets in Africa and Asia. The company's business practices have caused controversy, however, with some deprecating the firm as a patent troll. Myhrvold has publicly defended his firm's practices, arguing that they foster innovation by serving as a marketplace for intellectual property. He has noted that many of the largest companies in Silicon Valley, including Google, Apple, and Facebook, have also bought large patent portfolios and used litigation to protect them, but he has criticized them as focusing too much on creating "tools or toys for rich people." Myhrvold is vice chairman of TerraPower, a spin-out of Intellectual Ventures that is developing a new kind of nuclear reactor, known as a traveling-wave reactor, that is designed to be safer, cheaper, and cleaner than current nuclear power plants.
  - ozim 6y ago
    That is kind of interesting cognitive dissonance for me. Cannot be mad at the guy because he is spending that money on making pictures of snowflakes not on hookers and coke. On the other hand that is quite true in terms of perpetuating a broken system. Well might be that he just takes advantage of a broken system but he did not bribe politicians and did other shady stuff.
ChrisLomont 6y ago
>I feel a duty to point out the white washing. Nathan made his money on the basis of patent trolling, I feel a duty to point out this "black washing". Nathan made the bulk, if not all, of his fortune at Microsoft. They bought his startup in 1986 for 1.5M in stock. He then went to MS and founded MS research, which has turned out a spectacular amount of good CS research under his leadership. Here's [1] Nathan's worth in 1999, all from MS, at 650M. MS stock went from around 0.10 in 1986 at the purchase to around $40 in 1999, so pretty much all of Nathan's wealth was in MS stock. Today Nathan is worth around 800M, which, inflation adjusted back to 1999, is 200M less than where he was in 1999. [3] Also, Intellectual Ventures is not his - he co-founded it, and now owns around 40%. Also the entire income stream of IV is tiny compared to big patent players at big tech firms. They look to have around a few B in assets, after 20 years of existance. IBM does over 1B a year simply in licensing of it's patent portfolio. Some other big tech firms are similar. So while it's true he founded Intellectual Ventures, it's not at all true that is where he made his money. At best it gives him a place to play with ideas, but a massive money making machine it is not. Don't cast aspersions without checking your claims. [1] https://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/1011/6409172a.html?sh=6aef841133ef https://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/1011/6409172a.html?sh=6ae... [2] https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/nathan-myhrvold-net-worth/#:~:text=Nathan%20Myhrvold%20net%20worth%3A%20Nathan,co%2Dfounder%20of%20Intellectual%20Ventures https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/nathan.... [3] https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
- remote_phone 6y ago
  I don’t care where he made most of his money. I can what he is doing NOW. Patent trolling is sickening and I wish they would simply kill software patents entirely. He is a patent troll so fuck this guy. Also fuck all the other patent trolls, but this guy is a patent troll.
  - aptwebapps 6y ago
    Patent trolls suck, but the top comment was just wrong.
- 6y ago
mncharity 6y ago
> spend their time on complex cooking books That press campaign was masterful. Even HN was "in his spare time, he's an innovative chef! nifty!", not "IV now trolling food industry". Oh well.
chrismcb 6y ago
I would argue that he made his money at Microsoft. He made me money after that via intellectual ventures, but it was mainly his tenure at Microsoft that allowed home to spend his time on complex cooking books...

uptown 6y ago

For more background: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Myhrvold#Intellectual_Ventures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Myhrvold#Intellectual_V...

cunac 6y ago

what is wrong for getting paid for non-trivial patent? You have choice of using or not. It is not upon you to make a choice it must be free.

crispyambulance 6y ago
You should read up on how the practice of "patent trolling" actually works. You will quickly find it's profoundly toxic to innovation, creativity, and progress. It's antithetical to almost everyone's values save for extremely greedy people and their lawyers. Whether the patent is "trivial" or not doesn't even matter to these people. All that matters for them is that they can extract money.
javajosh 6y ago
Patent trolls make money by doing (very) lose pattern matching between what you do and the patent they hold, and then they demand an amount that they expect you to compare to the legal costs of arguing your point rather than the utility of the idea. It is a "gotcha" business model that is rightly reviled; the victims don't "choose" to use a patent, but rather the assertion of use is used as leverage by Myrvohld's company, and is expensive to defend regardless of merit. Therefore it is in their interest to assert every patent against every entity with any assets to take. It is very unfortunate that the justice system is so broken as to make this a viable business model. There are cases of stealing, but there are far more cases of businesses doing normal things and receiving claims out-of-the-blue that they have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to defend.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
The difference is when the patents are ridiculous or, to a layman, obvious. Take commenting on the internet; imagine that HN had to pay an x amount for each comment posted, because someone patented (and I'm sure someone HAS patented) the combination of a text input box and a submit button. Imagine YOU had to pay for that privilege. There's a few good stories out there; google for patent troll in combination with newegg or cloudflare.

rubidium 6y ago

Yes, the patent system has problems. But waging a personal vendetta against the person's hobbies is petty. Sounds like he had the money to pursue this well before his patent business, as he was CTO of Microsoft....so that point it just mud-smearing.

pc86 6y ago
It seems less "waging a personal vendetta against the person's hobbies" and more "acknowledging that this is an amoral human being who is perpetuating a broken system for personal gain."
- coldtea 6y ago
  >acknowledging that this is an amoral human being Morality play, much? People are nuanced, not just "moral vs amoral"... Intellectual Ventures exploits the market for inventions and patents, buying patents from companies and inventors under the assumption the patents will be more valuable in the future. (...) Startup companies spun out of IV, including Kymeta, Echodyne, and TerraPower, have developed commercial products from IV's inventions. Through its Global Good unit, which Myhrvold founded in collaboration with Bill Gates, IV has also invented and produced commercial products, such as improved vaccine coolers and milking cans, aimed at low-income markets in Africa and Asia. The company's business practices have caused controversy, however, with some deprecating the firm as a patent troll. Myhrvold has publicly defended his firm's practices, arguing that they foster innovation by serving as a marketplace for intellectual property. He has noted that many of the largest companies in Silicon Valley, including Google, Apple, and Facebook, have also bought large patent portfolios and used litigation to protect them, but he has criticized them as focusing too much on creating "tools or toys for rich people." Myhrvold is vice chairman of TerraPower, a spin-out of Intellectual Ventures that is developing a new kind of nuclear reactor, known as a traveling-wave reactor, that is designed to be safer, cheaper, and cleaner than current nuclear power plants.
- ozim 6y ago
  That is kind of interesting cognitive dissonance for me. Cannot be mad at the guy because he is spending that money on making pictures of snowflakes not on hookers and coke. On the other hand that is quite true in terms of perpetuating a broken system. Well might be that he just takes advantage of a broken system but he did not bribe politicians and did other shady stuff.

ChrisLomont 6y ago

>I feel a duty to point out the white washing. Nathan made his money on the basis of patent trolling, I feel a duty to point out this "black washing". Nathan made the bulk, if not all, of his fortune at Microsoft. They bought his startup in 1986 for 1.5M in stock. He then went to MS and founded MS research, which has turned out a spectacular amount of good CS research under his leadership. Here's [1] Nathan's worth in 1999, all from MS, at 650M. MS stock went from around 0.10 in 1986 at the purchase to around $40 in 1999, so pretty much all of Nathan's wealth was in MS stock. Today Nathan is worth around 800M, which, inflation adjusted back to 1999, is 200M less than where he was in 1999. [3] Also, Intellectual Ventures is not his - he co-founded it, and now owns around 40%. Also the entire income stream of IV is tiny compared to big patent players at big tech firms. They look to have around a few B in assets, after 20 years of existance. IBM does over 1B a year simply in licensing of it's patent portfolio. Some other big tech firms are similar. So while it's true he founded Intellectual Ventures, it's not at all true that is where he made his money. At best it gives him a place to play with ideas, but a massive money making machine it is not. Don't cast aspersions without checking your claims. [1] https://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/1011/6409172a.html?sh=6aef841133ef https://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/1011/6409172a.html?sh=6ae... [2] https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/nathan-myhrvold-net-worth/#:~:text=Nathan%20Myhrvold%20net%20worth%3A%20Nathan,co%2Dfounder%20of%20Intellectual%20Ventures https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/nathan.... [3] https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

remote_phone 6y ago
I don’t care where he made most of his money. I can what he is doing NOW. Patent trolling is sickening and I wish they would simply kill software patents entirely. He is a patent troll so fuck this guy. Also fuck all the other patent trolls, but this guy is a patent troll.
- aptwebapps 6y ago
  Patent trolls suck, but the top comment was just wrong.
6y ago

mncharity 6y ago

> spend their time on complex cooking books That press campaign was masterful. Even HN was "in his spare time, he's an innovative chef! nifty!", not "IV now trolling food industry". Oh well.

chrismcb 6y ago

I would argue that he made his money at Microsoft. He made me money after that via intellectual ventures, but it was mainly his tenure at Microsoft that allowed home to spend his time on complex cooking books...