"Erm yes. A large group of citizen can apply pressure to its local government to push for change in the EU, they can also to the same via MEP elections. " This

"Erm yes. A large group of citizen can apply pressure to its local government to push for change in the EU, they can also to the same via MEP elections. " This is obviously false, it has never happened in the history of the EU - just the opposite - citizens literally voted overwhelmingly against major treaties, and they were passed anyhow. Explain to us right now how major nations voted against the Treaty of Lisbon, and it was enacted anyhow? "It is debatable whether even the European Parliament does The European Parliament obviously does. " It obviously doe not, the evidence is clear: MEPs don't even have the right to introduce legislation, they don't chose or censure their leaders, they have almost no power at all. "thus doesn't educate people on the importance of MEP elections, then acts surprised when the European Parliament doesn't represent the UK population." Again, completely baseless claims. The level of awareness of MEP involvement is similarly low in other countries. "My view on the EU debate in the UK has always boiled down to the fact the UK public has simply not bothered to engage with the democratic systems in the EU" No - there is no meaningful way for individual citizens or groups to engage with on the EU level, by reason of scale and design, it was never meant to be that way. Ask yourself the question: + Why can MEPs not introduce legislation? + Why can MEPs not meaningfully censure leaders? + Why can MEPs, the only elected officials, not chose the leadership cadre? + Why is election turnout a paltry 45% Those were concrete, well designed choices, and the lack of democracy embodied in those choices was purposeful. The EU was specifically designed with a democracy deficit to keep the plebes and populism at bay. Those who defend the system are either ignorant of the reality of it, like Chinese commoners defending their President Xi on the basis of 'security and prosperity' - or they know the Machiavellian roots of the decisions and are just unwilling to admit it. Pro EU people are so often unwilling to engage in any way in the issue, they're like Trumpers or the more hardcore patriotic America types who see no wrong or nuance in American foreign policy example. It's like a cult.