4 ms·

Facebook accuses people tied to French military of running troll accounts

61 points by paganel 6y ago

jonathanstrange 6y ago
I don't care about Russian or French trolls but I care a lot about Facebook and very much hope it will be banned entirely in the EU some day. It's very unlikely but one can hope.
- actuator 6y ago
  Why? Rather than hoping for regulation on data use and other negative social media effects which should fix issues with social media companies including Facebook; why hope for a downfall of a particular company. It is not like the thing that replaces FB in case of a ban will be any better.
  - YinglingLight 6y ago
    Well a competitor wouldn't be the brainchild of CIA's LifeLog program, for starters.
    - meowface 6y ago
      Source? I see this claim made in a few places, but I can't find any evidence beyond "Facebook was created the same day LifeLog was shut down" (February 4, 2004). Not that I'm a fan of Facebook's data collection, but claiming it's a CIA operation is a substantial claim that would require substantial evidence beyond that date being shared, which very easily could be a coincidence. (Also, if it were really planned as a secret successor, why would they publicly do it on the same date?) I'm pretty skeptical Zuckerberg was in contact with the CIA when he started Facebook in his dorm room if that's the only piece of evidence.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - dr-detroit 6y ago
    According to ABC news the CIA and other intelligence agencies sponsor these social media apps so what makes you think they are in competition with anyone?
  - jonathanstrange 6y ago
    No company has ever treated me worse as a paying customer than Facebook but there are plenty of more objective reasons, too. They are enforcing a Kafkaesque set of rules they apparently do not comprehend themselves, and they are interpreting and enforcing them selectively. For example, Steve Bannon was not banned from Facebook after he suggested "jokingly" that Dr. Anthony Fauci and Christopher Wray should be beheaded. However, when someone made a clearly satirical Facebook page "Behead Zuckerberg" it was quickly eliminated, even though it was meticulously screened for policy violations. This is just one example that made headlines, there are thousands of similar examples. Facebook also influences the distribution of posts based on political indicators. For example, there is evidence that the dissemination of posts about Assange's extradition trials were blocked. There is also plenty of evidence of algorithmic discrimination, and examples of ads functionality and targeting that shouldn't even exist. For example, you could target ads to 13 year old girls in a specific town that have specific interests. I'd say that's a bit creepy. Last but not least, Facebook provides a fake customer service that seems to be intentionally designed to waste time, and there have been recent discussions of claims of fraudulent payment transactions - people were apparently charged for non-existent services on their ads accounts.
  - p0nce 6y ago
    bad website, you cannot post to your followers, it makes people unhappy, advertising there is useless
pjc50 6y ago
> "While we've seen influence operations target the same regions in the past, this was the first time our team found two campaigns — from France and Russia — actively engage with one another, including by befriending, commenting and criticizing the opposing side for being fake," This version of cyberwar is rubbish. But yes, it's good that Facebook is also willing to call out Western governments for their covert influence operations, even if that accelerates the hammer being brought down on it. There is no good reason for French military units to be interfering in former colonies in North Africa; let it go.
- jmnicolas 6y ago
  > There is no good reason for French military units to be interfering in former colonies in North Africa; let it go. While I absolutely agree, I think it's a bit hypocritical to target only France. The US and the UK do the same thing but somehow aren't banned by Facebook. The UK even announced a few days ago that they were using a psyops unit to counter vaccination conspiracy theories. The same unit that was previously targeting the Islamic State. I don't know exactly how they operate but I'm pretty sure they run a large network of social media bots to influence people online. Disclosure : I'm French so that might color my reaction a bit :)
  - meowface 6y ago
    I'm sure every significant nation does it. It's just a matter of the objective and mode of moderation. >Facebook said the alleged French accounts "posted primarily in French and Arabic about news and current events including France's policies in Francophone Africa, the security situation in various African countries, claims of potential Russian interference in the election in the Central African Republic (CAR), supportive commentary about French military, and criticism of Russia's involvement in CAR." >Elections are due to take place in CAR later this month. One post in French read, "The Russian imperialists are a gangrene on Mali! Watch out for the tsarist lobotomy!" >The alleged Russian accounts, in turn, criticized the French. Here it seems like it might have been a mix of an earnest attempt to counter Russian disinformation and perhaps some spreading of their own propaganda to influence an election.
- 6y ago
wokawoka 6y ago
F*CK FACEBOOK.
readarticle 6y ago
Facebook said it tied about 100 Facebook and Instagram accounts and pages to the alleged operation tied to people linked to the French military. The pages had about 5,000 followers on Facebook, the company said. Two separate networks of Russian pages, both allegedly linked to a Russian troll group, were also removed. Those pages had about 6 million followers, Facebook said. It’s not immediately clear from the article whether those Russian troll groups were the specific ones active alongside and with the French one in CAR, Niger etc, but some perspective is in order nonetheless.
- Hokusai 6y ago
  > 5,000 followers on Facebook It seems a personal initiative more than an state backed one. But Facebook will run with the false equivalency. Facebook is trying to fight back regulations with missinformation and smear campaigns. This are signs of a company that thinks that is above the law.
  - Mirioron 6y ago
    >This are signs of a company that thinks that is above the law. I don't think this is the case at all. These regulations aren't exactly law that has been around for a while. It's actively being created and lobbied for right now. Obviously Facebook is going to respond to it.
  - satisfaction 6y ago
    Or a state backed initiative in the early stages. In order to get to 5 million you have to pass 5,000.
  - dqv 6y ago
    This is what large companies do. The propagandistic terms known as public relations and reputation management. I just hope people won't think this is over once Facebook is dealt with. >smear campaigns France was also running a smear campaign in a foreign country. Just like Russia. Just like the US. Just like tons of countries. I don't think anyone should be doing it but you've got governments and quasi-governments (corporations) engaging in this behavior of steering public opinion. Neither of them are righteous.
bb101 6y ago
France is a primary actor in the EU seeking to regulate Facebook. It appears the company is now publicly calling out the country's shady activities on their own platform -- clever, and no doubt a good bargaining chip.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  The sooner FB leaves the EU the better. I don't use it and i don't know anyone for whom FB is critical Then again EU privacy initiatives are from German / Danish politicians
  - the_monocle 6y ago
    Facebook may only be popular among the older generation but platforms like Instagram and Whatsapp are the main social media and chat services used even among the younger generation at least in western europe. So I would say Facebook as a company is important in europe and by no means a small player.
    - cblconfederate 6y ago
      of course it s a huge player but not crucial. there are even many smaller players who will certainly take over if FB is ever restricted
    - Bakary 6y ago
      Facebook is still hugely important to people in their twenties in France
  - NonEUCitizen 6y ago
    Agreed re: FB and EU. Nonetheless, the sooner France stops interfering in its former colonies, the better.
    - cblconfederate 6y ago
      Some colonies have asked france to interfere
cullinap 6y ago
Bring back freedom fries!
Pet_Ant 6y ago
Previusly posted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25434674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25434674

61 points by paganel 6y ago

I don't care about Russian or French trolls but I care a lot about Facebook and very much hope it will be banned entirely in the EU some day. It's very unlikely but one can hope.

actuator 6y ago
Why? Rather than hoping for regulation on data use and other negative social media effects which should fix issues with social media companies including Facebook; why hope for a downfall of a particular company. It is not like the thing that replaces FB in case of a ban will be any better.
- YinglingLight 6y ago
  Well a competitor wouldn't be the brainchild of CIA's LifeLog program, for starters.
  - meowface 6y ago
    Source? I see this claim made in a few places, but I can't find any evidence beyond "Facebook was created the same day LifeLog was shut down" (February 4, 2004). Not that I'm a fan of Facebook's data collection, but claiming it's a CIA operation is a substantial claim that would require substantial evidence beyond that date being shared, which very easily could be a coincidence. (Also, if it were really planned as a secret successor, why would they publicly do it on the same date?) I'm pretty skeptical Zuckerberg was in contact with the CIA when he started Facebook in his dorm room if that's the only piece of evidence.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- dr-detroit 6y ago
  According to ABC news the CIA and other intelligence agencies sponsor these social media apps so what makes you think they are in competition with anyone?
- jonathanstrange 6y ago
  No company has ever treated me worse as a paying customer than Facebook but there are plenty of more objective reasons, too. They are enforcing a Kafkaesque set of rules they apparently do not comprehend themselves, and they are interpreting and enforcing them selectively. For example, Steve Bannon was not banned from Facebook after he suggested "jokingly" that Dr. Anthony Fauci and Christopher Wray should be beheaded. However, when someone made a clearly satirical Facebook page "Behead Zuckerberg" it was quickly eliminated, even though it was meticulously screened for policy violations. This is just one example that made headlines, there are thousands of similar examples. Facebook also influences the distribution of posts based on political indicators. For example, there is evidence that the dissemination of posts about Assange's extradition trials were blocked. There is also plenty of evidence of algorithmic discrimination, and examples of ads functionality and targeting that shouldn't even exist. For example, you could target ads to 13 year old girls in a specific town that have specific interests. I'd say that's a bit creepy. Last but not least, Facebook provides a fake customer service that seems to be intentionally designed to waste time, and there have been recent discussions of claims of fraudulent payment transactions - people were apparently charged for non-existent services on their ads accounts.
- p0nce 6y ago
  bad website, you cannot post to your followers, it makes people unhappy, advertising there is useless

pjc50 6y ago

> "While we've seen influence operations target the same regions in the past, this was the first time our team found two campaigns — from France and Russia — actively engage with one another, including by befriending, commenting and criticizing the opposing side for being fake," This version of cyberwar is rubbish. But yes, it's good that Facebook is also willing to call out Western governments for their covert influence operations, even if that accelerates the hammer being brought down on it. There is no good reason for French military units to be interfering in former colonies in North Africa; let it go.

jmnicolas 6y ago
> There is no good reason for French military units to be interfering in former colonies in North Africa; let it go. While I absolutely agree, I think it's a bit hypocritical to target only France. The US and the UK do the same thing but somehow aren't banned by Facebook. The UK even announced a few days ago that they were using a psyops unit to counter vaccination conspiracy theories. The same unit that was previously targeting the Islamic State. I don't know exactly how they operate but I'm pretty sure they run a large network of social media bots to influence people online. Disclosure : I'm French so that might color my reaction a bit :)
- meowface 6y ago
  I'm sure every significant nation does it. It's just a matter of the objective and mode of moderation. >Facebook said the alleged French accounts "posted primarily in French and Arabic about news and current events including France's policies in Francophone Africa, the security situation in various African countries, claims of potential Russian interference in the election in the Central African Republic (CAR), supportive commentary about French military, and criticism of Russia's involvement in CAR." >Elections are due to take place in CAR later this month. One post in French read, "The Russian imperialists are a gangrene on Mali! Watch out for the tsarist lobotomy!" >The alleged Russian accounts, in turn, criticized the French. Here it seems like it might have been a mix of an earnest attempt to counter Russian disinformation and perhaps some spreading of their own propaganda to influence an election.
6y ago

wokawoka 6y ago

F*CK FACEBOOK.

readarticle 6y ago

Facebook said it tied about 100 Facebook and Instagram accounts and pages to the alleged operation tied to people linked to the French military. The pages had about 5,000 followers on Facebook, the company said. Two separate networks of Russian pages, both allegedly linked to a Russian troll group, were also removed. Those pages had about 6 million followers, Facebook said. It’s not immediately clear from the article whether those Russian troll groups were the specific ones active alongside and with the French one in CAR, Niger etc, but some perspective is in order nonetheless.

Hokusai 6y ago
> 5,000 followers on Facebook It seems a personal initiative more than an state backed one. But Facebook will run with the false equivalency. Facebook is trying to fight back regulations with missinformation and smear campaigns. This are signs of a company that thinks that is above the law.
- Mirioron 6y ago
  >This are signs of a company that thinks that is above the law. I don't think this is the case at all. These regulations aren't exactly law that has been around for a while. It's actively being created and lobbied for right now. Obviously Facebook is going to respond to it.
- satisfaction 6y ago
  Or a state backed initiative in the early stages. In order to get to 5 million you have to pass 5,000.
- dqv 6y ago
  This is what large companies do. The propagandistic terms known as public relations and reputation management. I just hope people won't think this is over once Facebook is dealt with. >smear campaigns France was also running a smear campaign in a foreign country. Just like Russia. Just like the US. Just like tons of countries. I don't think anyone should be doing it but you've got governments and quasi-governments (corporations) engaging in this behavior of steering public opinion. Neither of them are righteous.

bb101 6y ago

France is a primary actor in the EU seeking to regulate Facebook. It appears the company is now publicly calling out the country's shady activities on their own platform -- clever, and no doubt a good bargaining chip.

cblconfederate 6y ago
The sooner FB leaves the EU the better. I don't use it and i don't know anyone for whom FB is critical Then again EU privacy initiatives are from German / Danish politicians
- the_monocle 6y ago
  Facebook may only be popular among the older generation but platforms like Instagram and Whatsapp are the main social media and chat services used even among the younger generation at least in western europe. So I would say Facebook as a company is important in europe and by no means a small player.
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    of course it s a huge player but not crucial. there are even many smaller players who will certainly take over if FB is ever restricted
  - Bakary 6y ago
    Facebook is still hugely important to people in their twenties in France
- NonEUCitizen 6y ago
  Agreed re: FB and EU. Nonetheless, the sooner France stops interfering in its former colonies, the better.
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    Some colonies have asked france to interfere

cullinap 6y ago

Bring back freedom fries!

Pet_Ant 6y ago

Previusly posted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25434674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25434674