4 ms·

I always find funny how first world citizens don't want the Amazon being (ab)used, or dislike the palm oil industry, but still want to keep and develop their ow

by ajot 6y ago

I always find funny how first world citizens don't want the Amazon being (ab)used, or dislike the palm oil industry, but still want to keep and develop their own agricultural lands AND their living standards.

zorked 6y ago
I'm a reasonably hardcore environmentalist but this is true. There will be many armchair experts here suggesting that stuff should be done in Brazil but they never propose things like "let's shut down New York for two months per year", or "let's impose mileage quotas on North American vehicles" or "let's reduce German manufacturing by 50%".
- Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
  Because none of those things are going to happen and it would hurt a lot of people in a lot of ways if they would.
  - ajot 6y ago
    Living in an economically underdeveloped country also hurts a lot of people in a lot of ways. Why not buffer this suffering with the whole world?
  - pelasaco 6y ago
    Brazil has a population of 200 million people. Is that a lot of people?
KozmoNau7 6y ago
Some first world citizens. Personally I want to reduce road traffic in favor of electric public transit, heavily reduce meat consumption, ban fast fashion and all but eliminate single use plastics, completely stop fossil fuel extraction and use. And I think the way forward is for the globally privileged elite (that's primarily us in Europe and the US) to lead by example and use the greater resources available to us to make a difference first, improve our spotty record instead of leaning back and just dictating to others what we think they should do. Historically, we've already done that more than plenty already.
- gfxgirl 6y ago
  I want to ask a serious question, what's a reasonable response? Every youtube channel and nearly every podcast I listen that brings up climate change also has frivolous merch they push and commercials for wasteful things. I know that at some level their merch and maybe the wasteful things are not a major sources of climate change but ... the attitude is. Each individual youtuber/podcaster is taking the attitude "My income is more important than the environment" which is basically the attitude almost everyone takes and arguably in the exact same category as fast fashion etc. Do you really need a Kurzgesagt calendar/poster/plushy shipped across the world to you? Flash Forward Podcast is always advertising you should subscribe to have gourmet beers shipped to you on subscription. Sean Carroll's Mindscape podcast shills for Bespoke Post to send you boxes of stuff you don't need every month. Isn't there some kind of disconnect between these shows telling us we should do more about climate change and then pushing exactly the kind of consumerism that brought us here? It was sad to watch VOX try to justify traveling by plane 10-20 times a year.
  - chronial 6y ago
    IMO "My income is more important than the environment" is not the correct summary. The actual situation is this: 1) A youtuber needs a certain amount of income to be able to afford the time to create their content. 2) Selling merch works way better than asking for donations 3) The positive impact of having the informational videos far outweighs the negative impact of creating and shipping the merch. You can of course criticize the viewers for (2) and if you think spreading information has a low impact, you can question (3).
    - gfxgirl 6y ago
      So basically "my message is important so I'll burn the world to spread it but your message, probably not so don't copy me" .. Okay. I mean you can make that same argument about almost anything "My 50k miles of air travel a year is important, yours isn't". "I need my giant house because I'm an influencer and invite lots of people over so I can convince them to save the environment". "If I don't look my best I'll never get the best opportunities which will make me rich and I can spend all my rich money on charity therefore I need all this fashion", etc...
cambalache 6y ago
Because for many "first-worlders" people in the third world are little better than exotic animals. They dont want to go to Mexico, Thailand or Kenya and find modern malls, hustling executives and last generation cars, no, they want pristine nature, exotic animals and smiling natives who treat them as gods and provide them with service for 1 dollar tips ("Dont give them more, you will spoil them").

by ajot 6y ago

zorked 6y ago

I'm a reasonably hardcore environmentalist but this is true. There will be many armchair experts here suggesting that stuff should be done in Brazil but they never propose things like "let's shut down New York for two months per year", or "let's impose mileage quotas on North American vehicles" or "let's reduce German manufacturing by 50%".

Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
Because none of those things are going to happen and it would hurt a lot of people in a lot of ways if they would.
- ajot 6y ago
  Living in an economically underdeveloped country also hurts a lot of people in a lot of ways. Why not buffer this suffering with the whole world?
- pelasaco 6y ago
  Brazil has a population of 200 million people. Is that a lot of people?

KozmoNau7 6y ago

Some first world citizens. Personally I want to reduce road traffic in favor of electric public transit, heavily reduce meat consumption, ban fast fashion and all but eliminate single use plastics, completely stop fossil fuel extraction and use. And I think the way forward is for the globally privileged elite (that's primarily us in Europe and the US) to lead by example and use the greater resources available to us to make a difference first, improve our spotty record instead of leaning back and just dictating to others what we think they should do. Historically, we've already done that more than plenty already.

gfxgirl 6y ago
I want to ask a serious question, what's a reasonable response? Every youtube channel and nearly every podcast I listen that brings up climate change also has frivolous merch they push and commercials for wasteful things. I know that at some level their merch and maybe the wasteful things are not a major sources of climate change but ... the attitude is. Each individual youtuber/podcaster is taking the attitude "My income is more important than the environment" which is basically the attitude almost everyone takes and arguably in the exact same category as fast fashion etc. Do you really need a Kurzgesagt calendar/poster/plushy shipped across the world to you? Flash Forward Podcast is always advertising you should subscribe to have gourmet beers shipped to you on subscription. Sean Carroll's Mindscape podcast shills for Bespoke Post to send you boxes of stuff you don't need every month. Isn't there some kind of disconnect between these shows telling us we should do more about climate change and then pushing exactly the kind of consumerism that brought us here? It was sad to watch VOX try to justify traveling by plane 10-20 times a year.
- chronial 6y ago
  IMO "My income is more important than the environment" is not the correct summary. The actual situation is this: 1) A youtuber needs a certain amount of income to be able to afford the time to create their content. 2) Selling merch works way better than asking for donations 3) The positive impact of having the informational videos far outweighs the negative impact of creating and shipping the merch. You can of course criticize the viewers for (2) and if you think spreading information has a low impact, you can question (3).
  - gfxgirl 6y ago
    So basically "my message is important so I'll burn the world to spread it but your message, probably not so don't copy me" .. Okay. I mean you can make that same argument about almost anything "My 50k miles of air travel a year is important, yours isn't". "I need my giant house because I'm an influencer and invite lots of people over so I can convince them to save the environment". "If I don't look my best I'll never get the best opportunities which will make me rich and I can spend all my rich money on charity therefore I need all this fashion", etc...

cambalache 6y ago

Because for many "first-worlders" people in the third world are little better than exotic animals. They dont want to go to Mexico, Thailand or Kenya and find modern malls, hustling executives and last generation cars, no, they want pristine nature, exotic animals and smiling natives who treat them as gods and provide them with service for 1 dollar tips ("Dont give them more, you will spoil them").