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Google did something similar with a targeted terms of service update – I believe it was agree or close your account. I suspect that this transfer is going to b

by dpwm 6y ago

Google did something similar with a targeted terms of service update – I believe it was agree or close your account. I suspect that this transfer is going to be consent-based to avoid non-compliance in the handful of cases cases where they have inaccurate data regarding location.

mnw21cam 6y ago
I never agreed. Google just stopped asking after a while. I think I could refer Google to the data protection office, but the chances that they'll actually do anything about it are slim to zero.
- remus 6y ago
  Typically there's a clause along the lines of "You have 30/60/90 days to explicitly agree to the new terms. If you continue to use the service after this time you are implicitly agreeing to the new terms."
  - jnxx 6y ago
    I would doubt whether such a clause would stand in court. Also, agreement (which is only one of the principles which make data processing legal, but I think it is the only one which covers what Google does, using the data for advertising which is not related to the direct service) is voluntarily, that means one cannot be forced to agree by otherwise withholding the service. Of course the latter point is not fully enforced for now but the EU is set to enforce it over time.
    - sbarre 6y ago
      Question that perhaps someone can answer: Can the company simply cut you off then? You have no _right_ to the service, so if you choose not to agree, they can't force you to agree, but are they required to continue offering you the service?
      - remus 6y ago
        > Can the company simply cut you off then? Yes. They're offering you the service under a particular set of terms. If you don't like those terms then the company is not obliged to adjust it's terms to suit you (assuming the terms themselves are legal in the first place, for example they don't break anti-discrimination law). In theory you could try negotiating the terms with the company to something that is more favourable for you, but as an individual you're not going to have a lot of leverage to get a company like google to offer a service that's specially tailored just for you! Negotiating is a lot more common in B2B services though, where you can have a lot more money on the table so it's worth it for both parties.
        mnw21cam 6y ago
        No. It's explicitly set out in the GDPR that refusal to agree to the unnecessary collection of personal data must not be a reason to withhold service.
        sbarre 6y ago
        Interesting, thank you! I'll have to look that up further.. This seems remarkable (not right/wrong) to me, that a private non-essential enterprise can be forced to service a customer who does not agree to their terms of use.
        mnw21cam 6y ago
        There is plenty of precedent. For instance, a private non-essential enterprise is not allowed to refuse service to a customer because they do not agree to never buy anything from their competitor.
        remus 6y ago
        I think we're making different points here. Where a company comes up with some terms that are illegal those particular clauses in the terms are unenforcable, but if the terms are within the law then they're the contract between you and the company, and both sides have to agree for the contract to be binding i.e. before the company will provide you the goods/service specified in the contract. If you don't agree to the terms then there's no agreement between you and the company, and the company is under no obligation to provide you with service.

by dpwm 6y ago

mnw21cam 6y ago

I never agreed. Google just stopped asking after a while. I think I could refer Google to the data protection office, but the chances that they'll actually do anything about it are slim to zero.

remus 6y ago
Typically there's a clause along the lines of "You have 30/60/90 days to explicitly agree to the new terms. If you continue to use the service after this time you are implicitly agreeing to the new terms."
- jnxx 6y ago
  I would doubt whether such a clause would stand in court. Also, agreement (which is only one of the principles which make data processing legal, but I think it is the only one which covers what Google does, using the data for advertising which is not related to the direct service) is voluntarily, that means one cannot be forced to agree by otherwise withholding the service. Of course the latter point is not fully enforced for now but the EU is set to enforce it over time.
  - sbarre 6y ago
    Question that perhaps someone can answer: Can the company simply cut you off then? You have no _right_ to the service, so if you choose not to agree, they can't force you to agree, but are they required to continue offering you the service?
    - remus 6y ago
      > Can the company simply cut you off then? Yes. They're offering you the service under a particular set of terms. If you don't like those terms then the company is not obliged to adjust it's terms to suit you (assuming the terms themselves are legal in the first place, for example they don't break anti-discrimination law). In theory you could try negotiating the terms with the company to something that is more favourable for you, but as an individual you're not going to have a lot of leverage to get a company like google to offer a service that's specially tailored just for you! Negotiating is a lot more common in B2B services though, where you can have a lot more money on the table so it's worth it for both parties.
      - mnw21cam 6y ago
        No. It's explicitly set out in the GDPR that refusal to agree to the unnecessary collection of personal data must not be a reason to withhold service.
        sbarre 6y ago
        Interesting, thank you! I'll have to look that up further.. This seems remarkable (not right/wrong) to me, that a private non-essential enterprise can be forced to service a customer who does not agree to their terms of use.
        mnw21cam 6y ago
        There is plenty of precedent. For instance, a private non-essential enterprise is not allowed to refuse service to a customer because they do not agree to never buy anything from their competitor.
        remus 6y ago
        I think we're making different points here. Where a company comes up with some terms that are illegal those particular clauses in the terms are unenforcable, but if the terms are within the law then they're the contract between you and the company, and both sides have to agree for the contract to be binding i.e. before the company will provide you the goods/service specified in the contract. If you don't agree to the terms then there's no agreement between you and the company, and the company is under no obligation to provide you with service.