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"It's mesmerizing to watch legions of young people defend a Union they grew up in with no wars, with relative economic stability, with open borders and unencumb

by jariel 6y ago

"It's mesmerizing to watch legions of young people defend a Union they grew up in with no wars, with relative economic stability, with open borders and unencumbered travel." A little bit like a Chinese citizen, defending their lack of democracy 'because 7% growth every year and stability!'. Not only are things things 1) possible without the EU, 2) they were mostly put in place long before the body politic existed (the EEC is a primary driver of the above) 3) it has nothing to do with the democracy deficit. "UK has left the EU and it will be fascinating how it will function now that it has severed basically all ties with the EU." The UK has not 'severed all ties' ... but, are you truly asking how it's possible for a sovereign nation to function without the EU? How does Australia function? How does Japan function? ? They will all get along mostly fine. Again - none of the arguments given point to any reasonable underlying motivation for denying EU citizens the right to chose their leaders. --> EU citizens are denied the right to vet, or vote for the leaders and their platforms, their elected officials cannot enact legislation, and their ability to censure the non-elected leaders (this is maybe the most important power) is basically non-existent. It's an existential problem.

avianlyric 6y ago
> How does Australia function? By mining huge amounts of raw resources and selling to their near by neighbours as well as the rest of the world. The U.K. doesn’t have access to any useful raw materials apart from perhaps coal. > How does Japan function? Through massive government borrowing. Their debt is 223% of GDP. Now it hasn’t really bitten them yet, but it’s increasingly looking like it’s gonna be a serious problem for them. I’m not either of those options is something I would pick for the U.K.
dmitriid 6y ago
> A little bit like a Chinese citizen Yes, a bit. A very tiny bit. And your inability to empathise with these people is telling. > The UK has not 'severed all ties' ... but, are you truly asking how it's possible for a sovereign nation to function without the EU? By spending decades building relationships with other countries. The EU is UK's largest trading partner. It is a huge common market with no borders, barriers, or tariffs. The EU has trade agreements with over a hundred countries that all members benefit from. Including, yes, Australia and Japan. By severing ties the UK establishes a barrier between itself and EU common market, it exits all trade agreements between EU and other countries, and so on and so forth. It will be decades before the UK re-establishes similar deals. > EU citizens are denied the right to vet, or vote for the leaders and their platforms Just a few years ago I voted in EU parliamentary elections. That doesn't sound like "denied the right to vet or vote".

by jariel 6y ago

avianlyric 6y ago

> How does Australia function? By mining huge amounts of raw resources and selling to their near by neighbours as well as the rest of the world. The U.K. doesn’t have access to any useful raw materials apart from perhaps coal. > How does Japan function? Through massive government borrowing. Their debt is 223% of GDP. Now it hasn’t really bitten them yet, but it’s increasingly looking like it’s gonna be a serious problem for them. I’m not either of those options is something I would pick for the U.K.

dmitriid 6y ago

> A little bit like a Chinese citizen Yes, a bit. A very tiny bit. And your inability to empathise with these people is telling. > The UK has not 'severed all ties' ... but, are you truly asking how it's possible for a sovereign nation to function without the EU? By spending decades building relationships with other countries. The EU is UK's largest trading partner. It is a huge common market with no borders, barriers, or tariffs. The EU has trade agreements with over a hundred countries that all members benefit from. Including, yes, Australia and Japan. By severing ties the UK establishes a barrier between itself and EU common market, it exits all trade agreements between EU and other countries, and so on and so forth. It will be decades before the UK re-establishes similar deals. > EU citizens are denied the right to vet, or vote for the leaders and their platforms Just a few years ago I voted in EU parliamentary elections. That doesn't sound like "denied the right to vet or vote".