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The very term “raw format” is confusing. Having long since ceased to mean “unprocessed sensor data”, nowadays raw (or indeed the ever-shouting all-caps “RAW”) i

The very term “raw format” is confusing. Having long since ceased to mean “unprocessed sensor data”, nowadays raw (or indeed the ever-shouting all-caps “RAW”) is primarily a marketing term used to denote lossily processed data left and right (ProRes RAW, BRAW, Sony’s “raw” .arw files that in fact come lossy from some cameras), causing much dismay to terminology purists or photography enthusiasts who want to work with the full range of values their camera is capable of capturing. On the other hand, there is a definition for what constitutes scene-referred data. ProRAW is scene-referred AFAIC. Un-demosaiced CMOS data is useless, and I am not holding my breath for any breakthroughs in demosaicing algorithms. As TFA stated, control over hardware gives Apple the opportunity to handle this stage better than what we are used to in the decoupled camera manufacturers vs. post-processing software developers world. Unless there is more loss happening in addition to demosaicing, I am inclined to say this is on balance good stuff and good tidings for DNG format, although I wish Apple called it for what it is (i.e., DNG, not ProRAW).

throwaway9d0291 6y ago
> nowadays raw (or indeed the ever-shouting all-caps “RAW”) is primarily a marketing term used to denote lossily processed data left and right (ProRes RAW, BRAW, Sony’s “raw” .arw files that in fact come lossy from some cameras) That does happen but I don't agree that it's "primarily" used that way. Canon and Nikon are still dominant and still use it to refer to uncompressed raw images.
- strogonoff 6y ago
  My exposure to this issue was mostly through mirrorless cameras (where Sony has been huge) and raw video capture formats (I almost got a BMPCC this year, but at the last moment found out that they have entirely dropped support for CinemaDNG and replaced it with compressed BRAW). I was not at all expecting raw capture to mean something else here compared to DSLR world, so I guess my disappointment shows.
unicornporn 6y ago
> The very term “raw format” is confusing. That's why I didn't mention "raw format", only raw. :) > Sony’s “raw” .arw files that in fact come lossy from some cameras Yeah, had one of those. First gen ⍺7. To me raw denotes that data has not been demosaiced. But, as you note, mosaiced data can also be cooked and lossy compressed. I'm not saying ProRAW (i.e. multi exposure linear DNG) is a bad thing. In fact, I've been waiting for something like this for years. The output from my Pixel cameras with their computational features like Night Sight has floored me. But still, there's almost no editing headroom in these overly contrasty JPEGs. The future is merged!

throwaway9d0291 6y ago

> nowadays raw (or indeed the ever-shouting all-caps “RAW”) is primarily a marketing term used to denote lossily processed data left and right (ProRes RAW, BRAW, Sony’s “raw” .arw files that in fact come lossy from some cameras) That does happen but I don't agree that it's "primarily" used that way. Canon and Nikon are still dominant and still use it to refer to uncompressed raw images.

strogonoff 6y ago
My exposure to this issue was mostly through mirrorless cameras (where Sony has been huge) and raw video capture formats (I almost got a BMPCC this year, but at the last moment found out that they have entirely dropped support for CinemaDNG and replaced it with compressed BRAW). I was not at all expecting raw capture to mean something else here compared to DSLR world, so I guess my disappointment shows.

unicornporn 6y ago

> The very term “raw format” is confusing. That's why I didn't mention "raw format", only raw. :) > Sony’s “raw” .arw files that in fact come lossy from some cameras Yeah, had one of those. First gen ⍺7. To me raw denotes that data has not been demosaiced. But, as you note, mosaiced data can also be cooked and lossy compressed. I'm not saying ProRAW (i.e. multi exposure linear DNG) is a bad thing. In fact, I've been waiting for something like this for years. The output from my Pixel cameras with their computational features like Night Sight has floored me. But still, there's almost no editing headroom in these overly contrasty JPEGs. The future is merged!