14 ms·

'Their' works fine and has been gender-neutral English for ages.

by icedchai 6y ago

erhk 6y ago
Ages is subjective, it came back in to popularity only recently
- icedchai 6y ago
  That varies based on location and regional dialect. Here in the northeast US, I remember using singular they/their since the 80's. It would be interesting to know when this become popular elsewhere.
  - hnick 6y ago
    80s in Australia too, been hearing/using it my whole life. Though with respect to 'ages' apparently it's been around since at least the 14th century but certain purists tried to stamp it out at various times (just like the singular 'you' which no one currently has grammatical issues with I hope). https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/ https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they...
throwaway201103 6y ago
His and her no longer correlates to biological sex, so what does it matter anymore. Pronouns can mean whatever you want them to mean.
- jodrellblank 6y ago
  > "so what does it matter anymore" The same reason it ever mattered how you refer to people, politeness and respect. If someone you consider "him" asks you to refer to them as "her" it's like someone asking you to call them by their full name "Rebecca" instead of "Becky" or "Jonathan" instead of "Jon". If you like and respect them, you do as they request because things which matter to them matter to you, and being polite to them is important to you. If you ignore what they ask, call them what you want, you communicate that you don't respect them and don't want to be polite, that you want to dominate and 'win' instead. > "Pronouns can mean whatever you want them to mean" Only one way. A specific person asking you to use a specific pronoun for themselves is wildly different from you unilaterally and universally saying that all women should feel included by the word "him" because "him" has no meaning anymore.
- icedchai 6y ago
  Okay, so use "their." It is gender neutral, so should work for everyone.
  - throwaway201103 6y ago
    It's also wrong. because it's not singular. Makes for difficult reading.
    - icedchai 6y ago
      It's not "wrong." Language is fluid and singular they is widely accepted. A previous poster linked to an article showing centuries of such usage.
    - j13k 6y ago
      From https://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/austheir.html https://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/austheir.html: 'Singular "their" etc., was an accepted part of the English language before the 18th-century grammarians started making arbitrary judgements as to what is "good English" and "bad English", based on a kind of pseudo-"logic" deduced from the Latin language, that has nothing whatever to do with English... And even after the old-line grammarians put it under their ban, this anathematized singular "their" construction never stopped being used by English-speakers, both orally and by serious literary writers.'
- caconym_ 6y ago
  It's about not being a fucking asshole to people because you want to stand on [your own stupid] principle. If you make an honest mistake and somebody attacks/humiliates/whatevers you for it, they're the asshole. If you can't manage to have some bare minimum consideration for somebody who is their own person just as much as you are, you are the asshole. I see both of the above happening pretty regularly these days. This stuff is a real gimme, so really the most charitable interpretation of your comment is that you are being disingenuous for edginess' sake.

'Their' works fine and has been gender-neutral English for ages.

erhk 6y ago

Ages is subjective, it came back in to popularity only recently

icedchai 6y ago
That varies based on location and regional dialect. Here in the northeast US, I remember using singular they/their since the 80's. It would be interesting to know when this become popular elsewhere.
- hnick 6y ago
  80s in Australia too, been hearing/using it my whole life. Though with respect to 'ages' apparently it's been around since at least the 14th century but certain purists tried to stamp it out at various times (just like the singular 'you' which no one currently has grammatical issues with I hope). https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/ https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they...

throwaway201103 6y ago

His and her no longer correlates to biological sex, so what does it matter anymore. Pronouns can mean whatever you want them to mean.

jodrellblank 6y ago
> "so what does it matter anymore" The same reason it ever mattered how you refer to people, politeness and respect. If someone you consider "him" asks you to refer to them as "her" it's like someone asking you to call them by their full name "Rebecca" instead of "Becky" or "Jonathan" instead of "Jon". If you like and respect them, you do as they request because things which matter to them matter to you, and being polite to them is important to you. If you ignore what they ask, call them what you want, you communicate that you don't respect them and don't want to be polite, that you want to dominate and 'win' instead. > "Pronouns can mean whatever you want them to mean" Only one way. A specific person asking you to use a specific pronoun for themselves is wildly different from you unilaterally and universally saying that all women should feel included by the word "him" because "him" has no meaning anymore.
icedchai 6y ago
Okay, so use "their." It is gender neutral, so should work for everyone.
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  It's also wrong. because it's not singular. Makes for difficult reading.
  - icedchai 6y ago
    It's not "wrong." Language is fluid and singular they is widely accepted. A previous poster linked to an article showing centuries of such usage.
  - j13k 6y ago
    From https://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/austheir.html https://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/austheir.html: 'Singular "their" etc., was an accepted part of the English language before the 18th-century grammarians started making arbitrary judgements as to what is "good English" and "bad English", based on a kind of pseudo-"logic" deduced from the Latin language, that has nothing whatever to do with English... And even after the old-line grammarians put it under their ban, this anathematized singular "their" construction never stopped being used by English-speakers, both orally and by serious literary writers.'
caconym_ 6y ago
It's about not being a fucking asshole to people because you want to stand on [your own stupid] principle. If you make an honest mistake and somebody attacks/humiliates/whatevers you for it, they're the asshole. If you can't manage to have some bare minimum consideration for somebody who is their own person just as much as you are, you are the asshole. I see both of the above happening pretty regularly these days. This stuff is a real gimme, so really the most charitable interpretation of your comment is that you are being disingenuous for edginess' sake.