6 ms·

Touch on smaller screens became the primary interface. Fingers fat, buttons big.

by wwb099 6y ago

systemvoltage 6y ago
Yeah, I get that. But why punish the Desktop users with mobile interface? We used to punish Mobile users with Desktop interface back then, we just reversed the problem, didn't actually solve it. They should be 2 separate things. 2 separate css files with @media select. 2 separate button sizes and styles. I know what happened - designers got lazy.
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  Yeah, I like rich, data-heavy, information dense desktop displays. Mobile UIs are such garbage, not to mention shit like reddit that only is able to process a request 30% of the time.
  - redwards510 6y ago
    Agreed. it drives me absolutely berserk that Reddit forces you to "Click to view more comments" just to see like 3 more comments.
    - hyperhopper 6y ago
      That particular anti user behavior is a strategy to pay reddit gold, which removes that limitation.
  - djxfade 6y ago
    https://old.reddit.com https://old.reddit.com
- vlovich123 6y ago
  Doing all the work twice is expensive. It’s not just the actual work of doing the design, but then you’re 2x testing costs too (unless you YOLO one of the modalities). More cost effective and better quality result to make a choice to make the platforms more uniform rather than trying to optimize for both. This obviously only holds when there’s a massive disparity in revenue. If your PC/laptop users make up a non-trivial parts of revenue it can start to make sense (but again, generally only if doing so will help you retain that market or get better revenues). The other thing unifying things does is it helps engineering and design teams by removing complexity. All of the above is general trends of how these decisions are made. There will always be counter examples or situations those aren’t good ideas (or that someone has made a mistake applying a lesson to the wrong situation). Saying an entire group of people is lazy or dumb is not a particularly insightful way of looking at anything that helps your understanding of the situation or learning what kind of results different incentives yield.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - bogwog 6y ago
    > Saying an entire group of people is lazy or dumb is not a particularly insightful way of looking at anything that helps your understanding of the situation or learning what kind of results different incentives yield. Maybe, but when you're talking about the armies of designers at the multi-billion-dollar tech company Google not going through the effort to maintain two stylesheets, I think "laziness" is an accurate description.
  - Jap2-0 6y ago
    > Doing all the work twice is expensive. Sure, but they already do all the work twice. I get a completely different site on my phone than on a desktop/laptop. In fact, they maintain far more than two designs - in addition to two native apps, there's a mobile website, the desktop website, and the basic HTML version. On top of that, they have multiple display density options for desktop (which admittedly is mostly just adjusting padding), redesigned the desktop site a few months ago, and had Inbox for a few years. On top of that, you can (some of these without a reload) change whether there are separate inboxes for various labels, add/remove a reading pane, and split threads into individual emails. I don't think Google is lacking in potential to maintain a website.
    - noemit 6y ago
      They don't. The browser just adapts.
      - Jap2-0 6y ago
        Desktop: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/ https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/ Desktop (plain HTML): https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/h/ https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/h/ Mobile: https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/ https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/
        vlovich123 6y ago
- Uehreka 6y ago
  No, designers did not get lazy. Devices got weirder. It used to be that you could check the width and height of the viewport and say something like “320px wide? Must be a touch interface, deploy the big buttons”. Then tablets got big and it was like “1024px? Could be a laptop, but it’s probably an iPad, which has a touch interface, deploy the big buttons”. Then laptops got touch screens, then the Surface Studio came in and was like “HAHAHAHA”. Now the game is “1920x1080? Could be a big tablet with touch, or a 1080p monitor without touch, or a non-maximized window on a Surface Studio with touch, or maybe it’s a monitor without touch hooked up to a laptop with a touchscreen and our window could get moved between them at any time...” Nowadays, there’s no single reliable way to tell if a page is going to have to support touch until it gets a touch event, by which point you’ve already rendered the UI and it’s too late.
  - pmlnr 6y ago
    Simple solution would be to ask the user what they want. I genuinely don't understand why this is not common instead of trying to guess it.
    - Uehreka 6y ago
      Some websites probably do have settings around this, but that gets to a point someone else mentioned: you would have to basically design, build, test and maintain two UIs. Except now with the kicker that one of those layouts is only used by the 5% of your userbase that both knows that the option is available and chooses to take you up on it.
    - csnover 6y ago
      You don’t have to ask the user, there is a media rule for querying whether the device is currently using coarse or fine pointer input[0] (though, of course, it relies on the OS not lying, which is not a given). [0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/pointer https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/poin...

Touch on smaller screens became the primary interface. Fingers fat, buttons big.

by wwb099 6y ago

Touch on smaller screens became the primary interface. Fingers fat, buttons big.

Yeah, I get that. But why punish the Desktop users with mobile interface? We used to punish Mobile users with Desktop interface back then, we just reversed the problem, didn't actually solve it. They should be 2 separate things. 2 separate css files with @media select. 2 separate button sizes and styles. I know what happened - designers got lazy.

arthurcolle 6y ago
Yeah, I like rich, data-heavy, information dense desktop displays. Mobile UIs are such garbage, not to mention shit like reddit that only is able to process a request 30% of the time.
- redwards510 6y ago
  Agreed. it drives me absolutely berserk that Reddit forces you to "Click to view more comments" just to see like 3 more comments.
  - hyperhopper 6y ago
    That particular anti user behavior is a strategy to pay reddit gold, which removes that limitation.
- djxfade 6y ago
  https://old.reddit.com https://old.reddit.com
vlovich123 6y ago
Doing all the work twice is expensive. It’s not just the actual work of doing the design, but then you’re 2x testing costs too (unless you YOLO one of the modalities). More cost effective and better quality result to make a choice to make the platforms more uniform rather than trying to optimize for both. This obviously only holds when there’s a massive disparity in revenue. If your PC/laptop users make up a non-trivial parts of revenue it can start to make sense (but again, generally only if doing so will help you retain that market or get better revenues). The other thing unifying things does is it helps engineering and design teams by removing complexity. All of the above is general trends of how these decisions are made. There will always be counter examples or situations those aren’t good ideas (or that someone has made a mistake applying a lesson to the wrong situation). Saying an entire group of people is lazy or dumb is not a particularly insightful way of looking at anything that helps your understanding of the situation or learning what kind of results different incentives yield.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bogwog 6y ago
  > Saying an entire group of people is lazy or dumb is not a particularly insightful way of looking at anything that helps your understanding of the situation or learning what kind of results different incentives yield. Maybe, but when you're talking about the armies of designers at the multi-billion-dollar tech company Google not going through the effort to maintain two stylesheets, I think "laziness" is an accurate description.
- Jap2-0 6y ago
  > Doing all the work twice is expensive. Sure, but they already do all the work twice. I get a completely different site on my phone than on a desktop/laptop. In fact, they maintain far more than two designs - in addition to two native apps, there's a mobile website, the desktop website, and the basic HTML version. On top of that, they have multiple display density options for desktop (which admittedly is mostly just adjusting padding), redesigned the desktop site a few months ago, and had Inbox for a few years. On top of that, you can (some of these without a reload) change whether there are separate inboxes for various labels, add/remove a reading pane, and split threads into individual emails. I don't think Google is lacking in potential to maintain a website.
  - noemit 6y ago
    They don't. The browser just adapts.
    - Jap2-0 6y ago
      Desktop: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/ https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/ Desktop (plain HTML): https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/h/ https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/h/ Mobile: https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/ https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/
      - vlovich123 6y ago
Uehreka 6y ago
No, designers did not get lazy. Devices got weirder. It used to be that you could check the width and height of the viewport and say something like “320px wide? Must be a touch interface, deploy the big buttons”. Then tablets got big and it was like “1024px? Could be a laptop, but it’s probably an iPad, which has a touch interface, deploy the big buttons”. Then laptops got touch screens, then the Surface Studio came in and was like “HAHAHAHA”. Now the game is “1920x1080? Could be a big tablet with touch, or a 1080p monitor without touch, or a non-maximized window on a Surface Studio with touch, or maybe it’s a monitor without touch hooked up to a laptop with a touchscreen and our window could get moved between them at any time...” Nowadays, there’s no single reliable way to tell if a page is going to have to support touch until it gets a touch event, by which point you’ve already rendered the UI and it’s too late.
- pmlnr 6y ago
  Simple solution would be to ask the user what they want. I genuinely don't understand why this is not common instead of trying to guess it.
  - Uehreka 6y ago
    Some websites probably do have settings around this, but that gets to a point someone else mentioned: you would have to basically design, build, test and maintain two UIs. Except now with the kicker that one of those layouts is only used by the 5% of your userbase that both knows that the option is available and chooses to take you up on it.
  - csnover 6y ago
    You don’t have to ask the user, there is a media rule for querying whether the device is currently using coarse or fine pointer input[0] (though, of course, it relies on the OS not lying, which is not a given). [0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/pointer https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/poin...