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I think the drama has virtually no effect on payment processors nor should it. Unless they are choosing not to do business with someone based upon them being a

by tssva 6y ago

I think the drama has virtually no effect on payment processors nor should it. Unless they are choosing not to do business with someone based upon them being a member of a protected class, they should be free to choose whether or not to engage in business with another entity. If anything this incident highlights that there is now an alternative to the traditional payment processors, cryptocurrency, so the power of the payment processors has actually diminished over time without any government interference. Who comes out of this poorly in my eyes is the EFF which has spent the last 2-3 years wandering so far from their original path that I have stopped what used to be a regular recurring donation to them.

monoideism 6y ago
EFF have indeed diverged from their original mission, which was fundamentally techno-libertarian. The EFF's changes are an excellent demonstrations of Conquest's Second Law of Politics, "any organization not explicitly and constitutionally right-wing will sooner or later become left-wing".
- spoopyskelly 6y ago
  EFF jumped on this only because "marginalized voices" are getting impacted in their view, not literally everyone that consumes porn. Instead of thinking of the children they think of the sex workers.
isbjorn16 6y ago
That's okay, you spurred me to donate.
jjeaff 6y ago
I would agree, except if there is any business in america with near monopolist power, it would be visa, amex, mastercard. I disagree with people arguing that companies like Cloudflare should not be allowed to choose their customers. Because there are countless other similar services that can for the most part, do what Cloudflare does. But the 3 big payment processors are an oligopoly and you effectively cannot do business without them. Crypto is a joke when it comes to relative adoption. There are no other options if you plan to run a business today.
- wang_li 6y ago
  If Facebook, Google, and Twitter decide you can’t use their platforms to reach your audience, you’re S.O.L. If you can’t take cards, you can at least take cash or check. And pornhub could set up a site selling bitcoin then add a pointer to their premium payment page referring folks to Bob’s Bitcoin Emporium.
  - sterlind 6y ago
    How long will people be able to keep buying Bitcoin though? There's a lot of hoops already. For instance, Cash App (at least recently) required you to upload a photo ID in order to enable transfers. They make it easy to invest in, but hard to use as a currency. I can imagine the US, at least, moving towards a future where Bitcoin is allowed as a financial instrument, but transferring to a wallet you control requires background checks and waiting periods like firearms. Either due to pressure from governments, credit card processors, or both.
  - Mirioron 6y ago
    You assume that Visa and MasterCard will just stop there. What if they go after businesses willing to do business with you? They see that blocking you from monetization doesn't work, so they block companies that sell you services from monetization if they continue to sell to you. Or they'll accuse you of money laundering when you switch to bitcoin.
  - bawolff 6y ago
    Its really hard to imagine a website that takes cash or cheque. I suppose its possible. At this point pornhub is big enough, that fb, google and twitter all banning it might honestly be less of a threat to them than their payment processors pulling support. Convincing users to type a dns name into the address bar of a very famous website seems easier than convincing the users to mail a cheque (esp. Internationally where people dont use cheques) or pay bitcoin
    - herbst 6y ago
      How about normal banking transactions? Nearly everyone has access to these, surely more than have access to credit cards or checks.
coldtea 6y ago
>they should be free to choose whether or not to engage in business with another entity So, if the puritans and the advertisers in the US are against e.g. BDSM or feet fetisism, or whatever, people all around the world should just bend over and take it (pun intended) because the two monopolies in payment processing decided to make businesses offering them unviable? Fuck this (pun intended). Payment processing should be like ISPs: neutral. If something is illegal, they sure can take it out. Anything else, it's not their place, and it's even less the advertisers place to exert undue influence. Payment neutrality is just as important, and as required as net neutrality.

by tssva 6y ago

monoideism 6y ago

EFF have indeed diverged from their original mission, which was fundamentally techno-libertarian. The EFF's changes are an excellent demonstrations of Conquest's Second Law of Politics, "any organization not explicitly and constitutionally right-wing will sooner or later become left-wing".

spoopyskelly 6y ago
EFF jumped on this only because "marginalized voices" are getting impacted in their view, not literally everyone that consumes porn. Instead of thinking of the children they think of the sex workers.

isbjorn16 6y ago

That's okay, you spurred me to donate.

jjeaff 6y ago

I would agree, except if there is any business in america with near monopolist power, it would be visa, amex, mastercard. I disagree with people arguing that companies like Cloudflare should not be allowed to choose their customers. Because there are countless other similar services that can for the most part, do what Cloudflare does. But the 3 big payment processors are an oligopoly and you effectively cannot do business without them. Crypto is a joke when it comes to relative adoption. There are no other options if you plan to run a business today.

wang_li 6y ago
If Facebook, Google, and Twitter decide you can’t use their platforms to reach your audience, you’re S.O.L. If you can’t take cards, you can at least take cash or check. And pornhub could set up a site selling bitcoin then add a pointer to their premium payment page referring folks to Bob’s Bitcoin Emporium.
- sterlind 6y ago
  How long will people be able to keep buying Bitcoin though? There's a lot of hoops already. For instance, Cash App (at least recently) required you to upload a photo ID in order to enable transfers. They make it easy to invest in, but hard to use as a currency. I can imagine the US, at least, moving towards a future where Bitcoin is allowed as a financial instrument, but transferring to a wallet you control requires background checks and waiting periods like firearms. Either due to pressure from governments, credit card processors, or both.
- Mirioron 6y ago
  You assume that Visa and MasterCard will just stop there. What if they go after businesses willing to do business with you? They see that blocking you from monetization doesn't work, so they block companies that sell you services from monetization if they continue to sell to you. Or they'll accuse you of money laundering when you switch to bitcoin.
- bawolff 6y ago
  Its really hard to imagine a website that takes cash or cheque. I suppose its possible. At this point pornhub is big enough, that fb, google and twitter all banning it might honestly be less of a threat to them than their payment processors pulling support. Convincing users to type a dns name into the address bar of a very famous website seems easier than convincing the users to mail a cheque (esp. Internationally where people dont use cheques) or pay bitcoin
  - herbst 6y ago
    How about normal banking transactions? Nearly everyone has access to these, surely more than have access to credit cards or checks.

coldtea 6y ago

>they should be free to choose whether or not to engage in business with another entity So, if the puritans and the advertisers in the US are against e.g. BDSM or feet fetisism, or whatever, people all around the world should just bend over and take it (pun intended) because the two monopolies in payment processing decided to make businesses offering them unviable? Fuck this (pun intended). Payment processing should be like ISPs: neutral. If something is illegal, they sure can take it out. Anything else, it's not their place, and it's even less the advertisers place to exert undue influence. Payment neutrality is just as important, and as required as net neutrality.