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EU have about much power to imprison you as Apple does, as in they can't unless they can convince the local police you have committed some crime. They lack powe

EU have about much power to imprison you as Apple does, as in they can't unless they can convince the local police you have committed some crime. They lack power compared to US feds.

SllX 6y ago
They’re still a collaborative governmental entity with governments enforcing its laws, so they pass muster as far as being a “State” goes, unless you want to go into specifics about the various treaties and how this is really a treaty organization and blah. In the looks, walks and quacks like a duck, with all the other ducks around treating it like a duck, it’s a bloody government with all the powers that entails, even if enforcement is a matter left to the member nations that do have all of the powers I just outlined. I actually did write recently in a HN comment outlining the difference between the EU and Feds, but in terms of power, the EU is closer to the US Federal Government than to Apple because it still has laws. Apple is a private organization with a corporate charter, owned by shareholders, controlled by its Board of Directors and with the ability to engage in lawful business activity, with none of the powers that governments have. They don’t have jurisdiction, they have stores. They don’t make laws, they write policies. They don’t levy taxes, they trade. The fees of the App Store are a known quantity, and you can take them or leave them. So in that light, does it still make sense to try to control Apple like a government entity or treat them like some kind of pseudo-government or rhetorically refer to their business practices using language we use to describe governments? Why do we demand so much more accountability from governments including supranational intergovernmental treaty organizations controlled by governments than we do from private shareholder owned and controlled organizations? Honestly think about it.
- jevgeni 6y ago
  > it’s a bloody government with all the powers that entails Still doesn’t have any physical police authority.
  - fogihujy 6y ago
    Yet.
    - jevgeni 6y ago
      Yet internet commenters pretend that they do, to make flawed, emotional points.
      - fogihujy 6y ago
        This is a bit off-topic, but personally, I believe it to be a matter of when rather than if. For now, the EU does have indirect ways of enforcing EU-wide legislation, as individual member countries will implement EU directives and enforce them. Thus, laws written in Brussels could result in people getting arrested, even if it ended up being a Dutch or Polish police officer doing the actual arresting. The EU does, however, tend to stick to things that result in economical sanctions and fines, rather than incarceration. Apple, on the other hand, has no such legislative powers.
        username90 6y ago
        As long as countries can leave the EU there is no way it will become as top down governed as US is. If the EU feds started to be as heavy handed as the US feds then the union would break apart, and since it is legal to leave in EU unlike US it wouldn't become a civil war.
  - SllX 6y ago
    It doesn’t have to because the national governments are charged with enforcing EU laws.
    - username90 6y ago
      The police follow their local laws and not EU laws and EU laws aren't automatically adopted by countries. And so far local politicians often refuse to enact EU laws when they don't make sense, and there isn't much EU can do about it since the local politicians are more powerful than EU politicians, instead EU tend to make exceptions for those who refuse. Lastly unlike US countries can still leave EU. If they make it illegal to leave then I'd worry, but until then the local government always comes first, since if EU pressures them too much they'd just leave.

EU have about much power to imprison you as Apple does, as in they can't unless they can convince the local police you have committed some crime. They lack power compared to US feds.

SllX 6y ago

They’re still a collaborative governmental entity with governments enforcing its laws, so they pass muster as far as being a “State” goes, unless you want to go into specifics about the various treaties and how this is really a treaty organization and blah. In the looks, walks and quacks like a duck, with all the other ducks around treating it like a duck, it’s a bloody government with all the powers that entails, even if enforcement is a matter left to the member nations that do have all of the powers I just outlined. I actually did write recently in a HN comment outlining the difference between the EU and Feds, but in terms of power, the EU is closer to the US Federal Government than to Apple because it still has laws. Apple is a private organization with a corporate charter, owned by shareholders, controlled by its Board of Directors and with the ability to engage in lawful business activity, with none of the powers that governments have. They don’t have jurisdiction, they have stores. They don’t make laws, they write policies. They don’t levy taxes, they trade. The fees of the App Store are a known quantity, and you can take them or leave them. So in that light, does it still make sense to try to control Apple like a government entity or treat them like some kind of pseudo-government or rhetorically refer to their business practices using language we use to describe governments? Why do we demand so much more accountability from governments including supranational intergovernmental treaty organizations controlled by governments than we do from private shareholder owned and controlled organizations? Honestly think about it.

jevgeni 6y ago
> it’s a bloody government with all the powers that entails Still doesn’t have any physical police authority.
- fogihujy 6y ago
  Yet.
  - jevgeni 6y ago
    Yet internet commenters pretend that they do, to make flawed, emotional points.
    - fogihujy 6y ago
      This is a bit off-topic, but personally, I believe it to be a matter of when rather than if. For now, the EU does have indirect ways of enforcing EU-wide legislation, as individual member countries will implement EU directives and enforce them. Thus, laws written in Brussels could result in people getting arrested, even if it ended up being a Dutch or Polish police officer doing the actual arresting. The EU does, however, tend to stick to things that result in economical sanctions and fines, rather than incarceration. Apple, on the other hand, has no such legislative powers.
      - username90 6y ago
        As long as countries can leave the EU there is no way it will become as top down governed as US is. If the EU feds started to be as heavy handed as the US feds then the union would break apart, and since it is legal to leave in EU unlike US it wouldn't become a civil war.
- SllX 6y ago
  It doesn’t have to because the national governments are charged with enforcing EU laws.
  - username90 6y ago
    The police follow their local laws and not EU laws and EU laws aren't automatically adopted by countries. And so far local politicians often refuse to enact EU laws when they don't make sense, and there isn't much EU can do about it since the local politicians are more powerful than EU politicians, instead EU tend to make exceptions for those who refuse. Lastly unlike US countries can still leave EU. If they make it illegal to leave then I'd worry, but until then the local government always comes first, since if EU pressures them too much they'd just leave.