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We applaud you for your altruism, but how does this benefit your firm? It's been established that this may be achievable for a small startup. However convincin

We applaud you for your altruism, but how does this benefit your firm? It's been established that this may be achievable for a small startup. However convincing key stakeholders that this would lead to an increase in a quarterly return may prove to be a unique challenge.

notsureaboutpg 6y ago
Easy to convince stakeholders. When you donate a sizable amount to an open source dependency, you get clout with the devs of that dependency, it's easier to rely on them for support if you need it. You can expect them to care more about the bug reports you send in vs. other people, etc. In addition, you ensure that the project is healthy, less likely to have serious bugs and issues that could destroy the value of your firm, etc. This is also why many open source developers sell support contracts or paid support in any shape or form.
deberon 6y ago
Perhaps their mission statement extends slightly beyond "an increase in quarterly return".
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  It'll be a lot easier to get the company I work at to do the same if I can convince them that it will benefit their monetary bottom line. So I, for one, would really like selfish benefits to helping FOSS projects.
  - Heliosmaster 6y ago
    How does your company feel about "priority support"? You might phrase it in the same way: we're using package X so we're paying mantainer to fix the bugs we encounter and help us in critical times. It'll cost us twice to do this internally.
ensignavenger 6y ago
Helping to ensure the stability and continued evolution of the software the company depends on? I don't see how this is such a difficult concept for some to understand.
- Heliosmaster 6y ago
  I think what GP was trying to say is that it's difficult to prove that, especially since it's longer term. It just requires better framing, i.e. Priority support on software package used.
petercooper 6y ago
We applaud you for your altruism, but how does this benefit your firm? Separate from a 'what will the shareholders think?' vantage point, this is a valuable question depending on your tax jurisdiction. In the UK, such sponsorships will be tax deductible only if you can answer this question in a satisfactory manner (or if the recipient is a registered charity, which is unlikely).
- danielheath 6y ago
  Hence the patio11 post about requesting a custom commercial license from the maintainers; the tax office will happily let you deduct 20k of software licensing but donations look like fraud.
  - petercooper 6y ago
    I've seen patio11 say things like this over the years, but hadn't connected the dots with this particular issue - genius. Certainly something we'll consider doing as a CYA against HMRC (or even our own bookkeeper who is rather strict with us).
  - patio11 6y ago
    Yep. I don't even need bespoke legal work; I'm happy if people just send an invoice with Commercial License as a line item and agree via email "Our Commercial License is the MIT license in the README and is available for $1,000 per year." HNers often ask whether this is somehow dodgy, which it is not. Both of the tax agencies which care about my business give me virtually carte blanche to determine which products/services are necessary to keep the business running, subject to their standard regulations, and it is my considered judgment as a business owner that the software I use is necessary and that the amounts I pay are appropriate to the value received.
- peteretep 6y ago
  > In the UK, such sponsorships will be tax deductible only if you can answer this question in a satisfactory manner As long as you can show the directors aren’t benefiting indirectly from this then I think it’s unlikely to be an issue, especially if you’re using the libraries in question? HMRC don’t require you to prove that you’re running your business to maximise profit, just that you aren’t disguising director payments as expenses.
tubbyjr 6y ago
Literally instead of having to hire potentially dozens of software engineers to reinvent the wheel, they are able to use open-source software, and this altruism is peanuts compared to what the former would cost.
dman 6y ago
You will be surprised how far even a small amount of support goes in having your issues prioritized on future roadmaps and in attracting help from the community during pressing critical bug reports.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
thraneh 6y ago
At first this follow-up comment really upset me. However, isn't it just a reflection of where we are now? So much is being discussed about AWS (and the likes) profiting from open source solutions without giving anything back. Isn't this comment just the pure reflection of a market place short-term trying to optimize profit without any regards to long-term benefits? The lead of the OP is something to follow, though!
wildmanx 6y ago
This is a very understandable attitude. Another great example of the overall effect described in the classic https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/
michaelbrave 6y ago
When a project you rely on dies, what then? Also it sets the culture of a company before it becomes large, which can help with recruiting (the people you want to work for you might be the type to be driven by said altruism and it could be a pipeline to talent). Also those who donate get better support and recognition by the community. Also when asking the developer of the project for something they would be more likely to listen.

notsureaboutpg 6y ago

Easy to convince stakeholders. When you donate a sizable amount to an open source dependency, you get clout with the devs of that dependency, it's easier to rely on them for support if you need it. You can expect them to care more about the bug reports you send in vs. other people, etc. In addition, you ensure that the project is healthy, less likely to have serious bugs and issues that could destroy the value of your firm, etc. This is also why many open source developers sell support contracts or paid support in any shape or form.

deberon 6y ago

Perhaps their mission statement extends slightly beyond "an increase in quarterly return".

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
It'll be a lot easier to get the company I work at to do the same if I can convince them that it will benefit their monetary bottom line. So I, for one, would really like selfish benefits to helping FOSS projects.
- Heliosmaster 6y ago
  How does your company feel about "priority support"? You might phrase it in the same way: we're using package X so we're paying mantainer to fix the bugs we encounter and help us in critical times. It'll cost us twice to do this internally.

ensignavenger 6y ago

Helping to ensure the stability and continued evolution of the software the company depends on? I don't see how this is such a difficult concept for some to understand.

Heliosmaster 6y ago
I think what GP was trying to say is that it's difficult to prove that, especially since it's longer term. It just requires better framing, i.e. Priority support on software package used.

petercooper 6y ago

We applaud you for your altruism, but how does this benefit your firm? Separate from a 'what will the shareholders think?' vantage point, this is a valuable question depending on your tax jurisdiction. In the UK, such sponsorships will be tax deductible only if you can answer this question in a satisfactory manner (or if the recipient is a registered charity, which is unlikely).

danielheath 6y ago
Hence the patio11 post about requesting a custom commercial license from the maintainers; the tax office will happily let you deduct 20k of software licensing but donations look like fraud.
- petercooper 6y ago
  I've seen patio11 say things like this over the years, but hadn't connected the dots with this particular issue - genius. Certainly something we'll consider doing as a CYA against HMRC (or even our own bookkeeper who is rather strict with us).
- patio11 6y ago
  Yep. I don't even need bespoke legal work; I'm happy if people just send an invoice with Commercial License as a line item and agree via email "Our Commercial License is the MIT license in the README and is available for $1,000 per year." HNers often ask whether this is somehow dodgy, which it is not. Both of the tax agencies which care about my business give me virtually carte blanche to determine which products/services are necessary to keep the business running, subject to their standard regulations, and it is my considered judgment as a business owner that the software I use is necessary and that the amounts I pay are appropriate to the value received.
peteretep 6y ago
> In the UK, such sponsorships will be tax deductible only if you can answer this question in a satisfactory manner As long as you can show the directors aren’t benefiting indirectly from this then I think it’s unlikely to be an issue, especially if you’re using the libraries in question? HMRC don’t require you to prove that you’re running your business to maximise profit, just that you aren’t disguising director payments as expenses.

tubbyjr 6y ago

Literally instead of having to hire potentially dozens of software engineers to reinvent the wheel, they are able to use open-source software, and this altruism is peanuts compared to what the former would cost.

dman 6y ago

You will be surprised how far even a small amount of support goes in having your issues prioritized on future roadmaps and in attracting help from the community during pressing critical bug reports.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

thraneh 6y ago

At first this follow-up comment really upset me. However, isn't it just a reflection of where we are now? So much is being discussed about AWS (and the likes) profiting from open source solutions without giving anything back. Isn't this comment just the pure reflection of a market place short-term trying to optimize profit without any regards to long-term benefits? The lead of the OP is something to follow, though!

wildmanx 6y ago

This is a very understandable attitude. Another great example of the overall effect described in the classic https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

michaelbrave 6y ago

When a project you rely on dies, what then? Also it sets the culture of a company before it becomes large, which can help with recruiting (the people you want to work for you might be the type to be driven by said altruism and it could be a pipeline to talent). Also those who donate get better support and recognition by the community. Also when asking the developer of the project for something they would be more likely to listen.