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I lost all faith in humanity in 2020. I still can't believe people can be that stupid. We won't be able to safe ecology when people can't follow simple rules.

by f311a 6y ago

HenryKissinger 6y ago
If people can't follow simple rules, then the state must force them to, under threat of fines, arrest, and prison time.
- alexilliamson 6y ago
  Can't say I agree, but it's cool to see Kissinger commenting on HN. Welcome!
  - selestify 6y ago
    Not the real Kissinger unfortunately
- f311a 6y ago
  I doubt the whole planet can cooperate on that.
- core-questions 6y ago
  Cool totalitarian liberalism, bro! Will you pay the security staff who enforce this more than minimum wage?
- worker767424 6y ago
  Singapore is a lovely city.
  - odiroot 6y ago
    It's indeed. They nearly solved the problem of tragedy of the commons.
Spivak 6y ago
I'm not sure what people expected to happen when we started producing billions of disposable masks and distributing them to everyone instead of just medical staff that have to follow disposal procedures. This shit happens with literally all of our single-use disposable garbage. Any system that requires billions of individual people to follow rules that inconvenience them without any sort of enforcement or consequences that come back to them personally was doomed to fail from the start. If we had just distributed reusable cloth masks and charged for them so people have an incentive to not lose them we could have avoided the bulk of this.
- verelo 6y ago
  > "and charged for them" You cannot charge the poorest people, those that pose the highest likely risk of contracting the illness, for masks that ultimately protect all of us.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    Sure, totally reasonable. Having a small percentage of people get them for free wouldn't really throw this scheme off when the goal is to reduce waste over the entire population.
- worker767424 6y ago
  > reusable cloth masks There might be issues with reusing masks (I haven't seen any data on this). This is more like one of those problems you sort out later and worry about it less when it's happening. The one thing I'd propose is do what we can to not use synthetics in them so they'll at least biodegrade.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I actually agree with you on this. I can't blame people for just rolling out what we had as fast as possible and dealing with the consequences later. It's frustrating but undoubtedly a good call in the moment. But I hope that we eventually get to the point where we have most people using reusable masks and that the disposable ones are biodegradable.
subpixel 6y ago
I live in a near-pristine area on the coast where people pay high prices to eat seafood dinners on a pier while they gaze at the sunset and let their plastic straws and oyster cracker foils blow into the ocean below them. I estimate conservatively that at least one piece of something plastic from every table winds up in the ocean.
- frankfrankfrank 6y ago
  I think you may want to reexamine things. What you describe is just about the last cause for concern about ocean plastic pollution. You should look into it a bit. Of the supposed total 5.25 Trillion pieces of plastic or 269,000 tons in the ocean[1], apparently 90% of that comes from 9 rivers, 7 in Asia and 2 in Africa[2]. And the rest of the world, essentially all of the Americas including the immensely plastic polluting central American rivers, Australia, and all of Europe only contribute 10% of ocean plastic pollution. [1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluti... [2] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-of-the-plastic-in-the-oceans/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plas...
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > And the rest of the world, essentially all of the Americas including the immensely plastic polluting central American rivers, Australia, and all of Europe only contribute 10% of ocean plastic pollution. That's probably not entirely fair, given that the west exports their recycling overseas. https://theconversation.com/heres-what-happens-to-our-plastic-recycling-when-it-goes-offshore-110356 https://theconversation.com/heres-what-happens-to-our-plasti... > Since then Southeast Asia has become the new destination for Australia’s recycled plastics, with 80-87% going to Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam. Other countries have also begun to accept Australia’s plastics, including the Philippines and Myanmar. https://www.npr.org/2019/08/20/750864036/u-s-recycling-industry-is-struggling-to-figure-out-a-future-without-china https://www.npr.org/2019/08/20/750864036/u-s-recycling-indus... > The U.S. used to send a lot of its plastic waste to China to get recycled. But last year, China put the kibosh on imports of the world's waste. The policy, called National Sword, freaked out people in the U.S. — a huge market for plastic waste had just dried up. It was a pretty open secret that it frequently just wound up dumped by unscrupulous companies that claimed to be processing it.
frankfrankfrank 6y ago
Could you explain what rule it is you think people are too stupid to follow? Since you bring up safe ecology; do you think it is plausible that the source of those 1.5 Billion masks is the same 9 rivers that make up 90% of all plastic ocean pollution, 7 of them being Asia and 2 in Africa?
- f311a 6y ago
  > Could you explain what rule it is you think people are too stupid to follow? I see face masks everywhere, even in places where you have a trash can every 20-30 meters. How hard is it to put the mask in the trash can or in your pocket? It takes no space in a pocket and you can put it in a plastic bag for an extra safety.
- rocgf 6y ago
  > Could you explain what rule it is you think people are too stupid to follow? If you have to ask this question after having lived through 2020, it does make me wonder... I believe a more decent question would be: is there any rule that people are not too stupid to follow?

I lost all faith in humanity in 2020. I still can't believe people can be that stupid. We won't be able to safe ecology when people can't follow simple rules.

by f311a 6y ago

I lost all faith in humanity in 2020. I still can't believe people can be that stupid. We won't be able to safe ecology when people can't follow simple rules.

HenryKissinger 6y ago

If people can't follow simple rules, then the state must force them to, under threat of fines, arrest, and prison time.

alexilliamson 6y ago
Can't say I agree, but it's cool to see Kissinger commenting on HN. Welcome!
- selestify 6y ago
  Not the real Kissinger unfortunately
f311a 6y ago
I doubt the whole planet can cooperate on that.
core-questions 6y ago
Cool totalitarian liberalism, bro! Will you pay the security staff who enforce this more than minimum wage?
worker767424 6y ago
Singapore is a lovely city.
- odiroot 6y ago
  It's indeed. They nearly solved the problem of tragedy of the commons.

Spivak 6y ago

I'm not sure what people expected to happen when we started producing billions of disposable masks and distributing them to everyone instead of just medical staff that have to follow disposal procedures. This shit happens with literally all of our single-use disposable garbage. Any system that requires billions of individual people to follow rules that inconvenience them without any sort of enforcement or consequences that come back to them personally was doomed to fail from the start. If we had just distributed reusable cloth masks and charged for them so people have an incentive to not lose them we could have avoided the bulk of this.

verelo 6y ago
> "and charged for them" You cannot charge the poorest people, those that pose the highest likely risk of contracting the illness, for masks that ultimately protect all of us.
- Spivak 6y ago
  Sure, totally reasonable. Having a small percentage of people get them for free wouldn't really throw this scheme off when the goal is to reduce waste over the entire population.
worker767424 6y ago
> reusable cloth masks There might be issues with reusing masks (I haven't seen any data on this). This is more like one of those problems you sort out later and worry about it less when it's happening. The one thing I'd propose is do what we can to not use synthetics in them so they'll at least biodegrade.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I actually agree with you on this. I can't blame people for just rolling out what we had as fast as possible and dealing with the consequences later. It's frustrating but undoubtedly a good call in the moment. But I hope that we eventually get to the point where we have most people using reusable masks and that the disposable ones are biodegradable.

subpixel 6y ago

I live in a near-pristine area on the coast where people pay high prices to eat seafood dinners on a pier while they gaze at the sunset and let their plastic straws and oyster cracker foils blow into the ocean below them. I estimate conservatively that at least one piece of something plastic from every table winds up in the ocean.

frankfrankfrank 6y ago
I think you may want to reexamine things. What you describe is just about the last cause for concern about ocean plastic pollution. You should look into it a bit. Of the supposed total 5.25 Trillion pieces of plastic or 269,000 tons in the ocean[1], apparently 90% of that comes from 9 rivers, 7 in Asia and 2 in Africa[2]. And the rest of the world, essentially all of the Americas including the immensely plastic polluting central American rivers, Australia, and all of Europe only contribute 10% of ocean plastic pollution. [1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluti... [2] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-of-the-plastic-in-the-oceans/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plas...
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  > And the rest of the world, essentially all of the Americas including the immensely plastic polluting central American rivers, Australia, and all of Europe only contribute 10% of ocean plastic pollution. That's probably not entirely fair, given that the west exports their recycling overseas. https://theconversation.com/heres-what-happens-to-our-plastic-recycling-when-it-goes-offshore-110356 https://theconversation.com/heres-what-happens-to-our-plasti... > Since then Southeast Asia has become the new destination for Australia’s recycled plastics, with 80-87% going to Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam. Other countries have also begun to accept Australia’s plastics, including the Philippines and Myanmar. https://www.npr.org/2019/08/20/750864036/u-s-recycling-industry-is-struggling-to-figure-out-a-future-without-china https://www.npr.org/2019/08/20/750864036/u-s-recycling-indus... > The U.S. used to send a lot of its plastic waste to China to get recycled. But last year, China put the kibosh on imports of the world's waste. The policy, called National Sword, freaked out people in the U.S. — a huge market for plastic waste had just dried up. It was a pretty open secret that it frequently just wound up dumped by unscrupulous companies that claimed to be processing it.

frankfrankfrank 6y ago

Could you explain what rule it is you think people are too stupid to follow? Since you bring up safe ecology; do you think it is plausible that the source of those 1.5 Billion masks is the same 9 rivers that make up 90% of all plastic ocean pollution, 7 of them being Asia and 2 in Africa?

f311a 6y ago
> Could you explain what rule it is you think people are too stupid to follow? I see face masks everywhere, even in places where you have a trash can every 20-30 meters. How hard is it to put the mask in the trash can or in your pocket? It takes no space in a pocket and you can put it in a plastic bag for an extra safety.
rocgf 6y ago
> Could you explain what rule it is you think people are too stupid to follow? If you have to ask this question after having lived through 2020, it does make me wonder... I believe a more decent question would be: is there any rule that people are not too stupid to follow?