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> Ursula von der Leyen did not receive any votes She was nominated by the Council of Europe (comprised of the heads of state for each of the EU nations), and c

by paddez 6y ago

> Ursula von der Leyen did not receive any votes She was nominated by the Council of Europe (comprised of the heads of state for each of the EU nations), and confirmed by the European Parliament (which represents the European electorate).

corty 6y ago
That is a very uncharitable and weak interpretation of the grandparent. For the parliamentary elections, the bigger parties agreed to try to fix democracy deficits by promising to elect a nominated candidate (Frans Timmmermans and Manfred Weber) as president of the commission depending on which block won in parliament. Yet, after the election, in a typical EU backroom deal, von der Leyen was elected. So it is quite fair to say that no constituent voted for her in any meaningful way. https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2019-07/ursula-von-der-leyen-eu-kommissionspraesidentin-wahlsieg https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2019-07/ursula-von-der-l...
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  The UK has exactly the same opacity. People vote for parties, and the winning party can replace its leader at any time. Voters have exactly zero input into who is chosen. That choice is down to the party hierarchy, with some token show-voting from party members once a shortlist has been selected.
  - jariel 6y ago
    This is not true, and the most recent election in the UK is strong evidence of this. UK voters know which parties they are voting for, their platforms, and their leaders, turnout is high, and there is general awareness of the issues. In mostly the same way in other 'good' EU nations. Parliament can fall if there's a lack of confidence in leadership, particularly on an important issue, in which case, there's an election. This happen with Johnson in the UK wherein there was an 'issue election' called and people were well aware of the issues. This was actually a pretty strong and democratic process: Johnson had not been elected, so he went to the polls and people had material, meaningful input. In proportional representation systems, leaders can change without elections as well (see: Sweden, Finland etc.) and it's not exactly perfect but it works well enough. The 'good' European nations have pretty good democracy at the national level. It's at the EU level that it's all Byzantine. Pun intended.
- paddez 6y ago
  Right, hence a representative democracy. Our elected representatives, represent our voices in their votes.

by paddez 6y ago

corty 6y ago

That is a very uncharitable and weak interpretation of the grandparent. For the parliamentary elections, the bigger parties agreed to try to fix democracy deficits by promising to elect a nominated candidate (Frans Timmmermans and Manfred Weber) as president of the commission depending on which block won in parliament. Yet, after the election, in a typical EU backroom deal, von der Leyen was elected. So it is quite fair to say that no constituent voted for her in any meaningful way. https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2019-07/ursula-von-der-leyen-eu-kommissionspraesidentin-wahlsieg https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2019-07/ursula-von-der-l...

TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
The UK has exactly the same opacity. People vote for parties, and the winning party can replace its leader at any time. Voters have exactly zero input into who is chosen. That choice is down to the party hierarchy, with some token show-voting from party members once a shortlist has been selected.
- jariel 6y ago
  This is not true, and the most recent election in the UK is strong evidence of this. UK voters know which parties they are voting for, their platforms, and their leaders, turnout is high, and there is general awareness of the issues. In mostly the same way in other 'good' EU nations. Parliament can fall if there's a lack of confidence in leadership, particularly on an important issue, in which case, there's an election. This happen with Johnson in the UK wherein there was an 'issue election' called and people were well aware of the issues. This was actually a pretty strong and democratic process: Johnson had not been elected, so he went to the polls and people had material, meaningful input. In proportional representation systems, leaders can change without elections as well (see: Sweden, Finland etc.) and it's not exactly perfect but it works well enough. The 'good' European nations have pretty good democracy at the national level. It's at the EU level that it's all Byzantine. Pun intended.
paddez 6y ago
Right, hence a representative democracy. Our elected representatives, represent our voices in their votes.