3 ms·

I live in Portland and watched many of these press people via Twitter. The reality is that many of these “press” are activists who document their activism and t

I live in Portland and watched many of these press people via Twitter. The reality is that many of these “press” are activists who document their activism and the activism of their comrades. They call themselves press, but they are press+activist. As a result they are often in the crowd of people throwing stuff at police, while screaming “hey you fucking fascist, aren’t you embarassed to be an authoritarian?” I am not saying that they are better or worse than traditional press, which I have a strong aversion to, I am just saying they are not impartial and are very often just Twitter journalists who are protesting at the same time they are working, and as such these numbers don’t tell the full story. I happily follow them to see on the ground footage, but you have to take their editorial viewpoint with a huge grain of salt. *Edited to add "many" in describing press, since my original statement implied all, which is obviously not true.

adamsea 6y ago
> I am not saying that they are better or worse than traditional press, which I have a strong aversion to, I am just saying ... So you’re saying you just don’t like the press, basically. Except maybe the press that says what you like? Because tbh everything you wrote just sounds like a lot of authoritatively-stated opinion. Which tells me that you’re either uneducated about facts-, or, looking to shift the conversation away from facts. For that matter, what’s wrong with activism? And activism against what, specifically? You don’t even mention that. Just “activists”. LOL I watch twitter too and didn’t see what you saw. Here: https://www.opb.org/news/article/aclu-sues-portland-oregon-police-officers-attacked-journalists-blm-protests/ https://www.opb.org/news/article/aclu-sues-portland-oregon-p... https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2020/06/07/portland-reporter-pens-first-person-account-of-being-pepper-sprayed-while-filming-an-arrest/ https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2020/06/07/portland-reporter... “ Video taken from a helicopter by WW's news partner KATU-TV around 11:45 pm on June 6 shows a person filming police in Chapman Square, until an officer turns to him, hits him with a baton and twice pepper-sprays him in the face. ... “‘As the man sputtered and spit and gasped, I, for reasons that I'm sure are clear, shouted to get the fuck off his neck,’ Farley recalls. ‘This is the moment a fourth officer approached, reaching for his baton.’ Farley says he believes officers targeted him because he was filming the arrest.“ Press-activists indeed.
- anonfornoreason 6y ago
  Hey I am not saying police misconduct is not a problem. I would like to see some police reform myself, I myself have been a victim of unfair policing despite growing up white and middle class. I can agree that police misconduct happens, while also say that many of the journalists in Portland covering the protests are literally there participating in protesting as well by virtue of what they are doing and what they say. I can also say this while respecting the work they are doing as journalists (which is why I follow them). These are not mutually exclusive statements as far as I can tell.
  - adamsea 6y ago
    Fair enough. I appreciate your response. I had gotten a very different impression from your previous comment, FYI. Maybe I was too angry when I was writing myself. While some journalists in Portland may be actively engaged as you describe, I think it's inaccurate and unfair to expand that into a generalization of most journalists in Portland.
calvinmorrison 6y ago
Well I think you almost nailed the point - when the police declare a riot, and start rounding everyone up who doesn't disperse, the media gets rolled up with that as well many times - especially if you are livestreaming via a gopro and not with a NBC news truck (though we saw journalists with institutional backing get hit with rubber bullets this year as well)
- runako 6y ago
  > not with a NBC news truck Reminder that a CNN journalist was arrested during a live broadcast this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftLzQefpBvM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftLzQefpBvM I'm not sure riot declarations are supposed to allow the police to arrest journalists this way. (And if they are, we should challenge them on Constitutional grounds.)
- anonfornoreason 6y ago
  Definitely. And again, not saying there aren't issues here, just that we are moving to a more citizen based journalism model, and by doing that we are increasing the number of journalists 10x, and with this comes some interesting change in journalism itself. These journalists are (1) harder to identify, (2) have a different relationship to the news in that they aren't traveling to cover a news event, they are local citizens concerned about an outcome and documenting an event that often, then are emotionally strongly connected to, and (3) there is no governing body or corporate rules or sponsors that make their actions understandable and predictable. Citizen journalism gives me more valuable insight into what is happening on the streets, though it takes more work on my part to sort through and develop my own narrative. I mostly discount the narrative journalists apply and try to figure out the facts from the material presented (except when I am consuming opinion pieces, where my explicit goal is to evaluate someone's narrative and viewpoint). I think this model holds some promise, though I am concerned that the sheer volume of material makes this untenable except the privileged few who have the time or mental space to through it all. Also, traditional media sources are just buying up these videos and accounts rather than sending their own crews, so we are already seeing this stuff applied nationwide, regardless whether someone views it on twitter or reads about it on a news website.
obelos 6y ago
Impartiality is not a defining attribute of journalism. Having and expressing opinions (when not immediately involved in a scene), setting an editorial slant, and being embedded in events are not counter-journalistic practices. Journalists are “neutral” only in the sense that they seek to observe and not to alter the events as they unfold. In many situations this is not tenable in any absolute degree, but the independent journalists I've watched here in Portland over the past six months have overwhelmingly made their best effort of trying to stay out of the way of police and interact with people very much as reporters, taking in information and interviewing participants to solicit perspective and details.
- 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
  Whay on earth? Objectivity is considered to one of main principles of journalism in the west, even in America where they are not even trying but nevertheless.
dtech 6y ago
I am sure that this happens. However, legitimate journalists who are trying to cooperate with the police and are not protesting are also arrested: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/minneapolis-cnn-crew-arrested/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/minneapolis-cnn-crew-a...

adamsea 6y ago

> I am not saying that they are better or worse than traditional press, which I have a strong aversion to, I am just saying ... So you’re saying you just don’t like the press, basically. Except maybe the press that says what you like? Because tbh everything you wrote just sounds like a lot of authoritatively-stated opinion. Which tells me that you’re either uneducated about facts-, or, looking to shift the conversation away from facts. For that matter, what’s wrong with activism? And activism against what, specifically? You don’t even mention that. Just “activists”. LOL I watch twitter too and didn’t see what you saw. Here: https://www.opb.org/news/article/aclu-sues-portland-oregon-police-officers-attacked-journalists-blm-protests/ https://www.opb.org/news/article/aclu-sues-portland-oregon-p... https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2020/06/07/portland-reporter-pens-first-person-account-of-being-pepper-sprayed-while-filming-an-arrest/ https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2020/06/07/portland-reporter... “ Video taken from a helicopter by WW's news partner KATU-TV around 11:45 pm on June 6 shows a person filming police in Chapman Square, until an officer turns to him, hits him with a baton and twice pepper-sprays him in the face. ... “‘As the man sputtered and spit and gasped, I, for reasons that I'm sure are clear, shouted to get the fuck off his neck,’ Farley recalls. ‘This is the moment a fourth officer approached, reaching for his baton.’ Farley says he believes officers targeted him because he was filming the arrest.“ Press-activists indeed.

anonfornoreason 6y ago
Hey I am not saying police misconduct is not a problem. I would like to see some police reform myself, I myself have been a victim of unfair policing despite growing up white and middle class. I can agree that police misconduct happens, while also say that many of the journalists in Portland covering the protests are literally there participating in protesting as well by virtue of what they are doing and what they say. I can also say this while respecting the work they are doing as journalists (which is why I follow them). These are not mutually exclusive statements as far as I can tell.
- adamsea 6y ago
  Fair enough. I appreciate your response. I had gotten a very different impression from your previous comment, FYI. Maybe I was too angry when I was writing myself. While some journalists in Portland may be actively engaged as you describe, I think it's inaccurate and unfair to expand that into a generalization of most journalists in Portland.

calvinmorrison 6y ago

Well I think you almost nailed the point - when the police declare a riot, and start rounding everyone up who doesn't disperse, the media gets rolled up with that as well many times - especially if you are livestreaming via a gopro and not with a NBC news truck (though we saw journalists with institutional backing get hit with rubber bullets this year as well)

runako 6y ago
> not with a NBC news truck Reminder that a CNN journalist was arrested during a live broadcast this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftLzQefpBvM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftLzQefpBvM I'm not sure riot declarations are supposed to allow the police to arrest journalists this way. (And if they are, we should challenge them on Constitutional grounds.)
anonfornoreason 6y ago
Definitely. And again, not saying there aren't issues here, just that we are moving to a more citizen based journalism model, and by doing that we are increasing the number of journalists 10x, and with this comes some interesting change in journalism itself. These journalists are (1) harder to identify, (2) have a different relationship to the news in that they aren't traveling to cover a news event, they are local citizens concerned about an outcome and documenting an event that often, then are emotionally strongly connected to, and (3) there is no governing body or corporate rules or sponsors that make their actions understandable and predictable. Citizen journalism gives me more valuable insight into what is happening on the streets, though it takes more work on my part to sort through and develop my own narrative. I mostly discount the narrative journalists apply and try to figure out the facts from the material presented (except when I am consuming opinion pieces, where my explicit goal is to evaluate someone's narrative and viewpoint). I think this model holds some promise, though I am concerned that the sheer volume of material makes this untenable except the privileged few who have the time or mental space to through it all. Also, traditional media sources are just buying up these videos and accounts rather than sending their own crews, so we are already seeing this stuff applied nationwide, regardless whether someone views it on twitter or reads about it on a news website.

obelos 6y ago

Impartiality is not a defining attribute of journalism. Having and expressing opinions (when not immediately involved in a scene), setting an editorial slant, and being embedded in events are not counter-journalistic practices. Journalists are “neutral” only in the sense that they seek to observe and not to alter the events as they unfold. In many situations this is not tenable in any absolute degree, but the independent journalists I've watched here in Portland over the past six months have overwhelmingly made their best effort of trying to stay out of the way of police and interact with people very much as reporters, taking in information and interviewing participants to solicit perspective and details.

9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
Whay on earth? Objectivity is considered to one of main principles of journalism in the west, even in America where they are not even trying but nevertheless.

dtech 6y ago

I am sure that this happens. However, legitimate journalists who are trying to cooperate with the police and are not protesting are also arrested: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/minneapolis-cnn-crew-arrested/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/minneapolis-cnn-crew-a...