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> With one click, upgrade to Grafana Enterprise, giving you access to a wide variety of third-party ISV plugins – AppDynamics, Datadog, Dynatrace, New Relic, Or

by luhn 6y ago

> With one click, upgrade to Grafana Enterprise, giving you access to a wide variety of third-party ISV plugins – AppDynamics, Datadog, Dynatrace, New Relic, Oracle Database, ServiceNow, Splunk, Wavefront, Snowflake, and MongoDB. You can also access consultation, support, and on-demand training content directly from Grafana Labs. It's nice to see that AWS partnered with Grafana Labs on this. Both companies stand to benefit, and the success of Grafana Labs helps ensure the long-term success of Grafana. Here's the Grafana Labs press release: https://grafana.com/blog/2020/12/15/announcing-amazon-managed-service-for-grafana/?pg=hp&plcmt=hero-btn1 https://grafana.com/blog/2020/12/15/announcing-amazon-manage...

tempest_ 6y ago
Assuming they didnt make them an offer they couldn't refuse. You know, work with us or we'll OpenDistro you.
- Spivak 6y ago
  This is how software is supposed to work. If your enterprise value-add can be replicated by a two pizza team and that team is cheaper than your licensing fees then it's barely even a question as to whether it's worth it. We do this all the time on a smaller scale at our company to avoid license fees. We need one small feature from the enterprise offering so we implement it ourselves to say with the free oss/community version.
  - judge2020 6y ago
    Except that Amazon isn't "a two pizza team", it's a 1.5 trillion dollar company that could replicate any startup ever with 6-12 months and a hundred engineers.
    - Spivak 6y ago
      I think in the business world this would be called "not having a moat." There's basically only one to proceed if your product can be semi-trivially copied by someone throwing money at the problem. You have to sell it to them for less than it would cost to build in-house. Sure they could throw money at the problem but they won't when it's cheaper to just buy it.
      - manigandham 6y ago
        When you have that much money, moats don't matter.
        treeman79 6y ago
        Code commit. It is so horrible compared to GitHub.
        sneak 6y ago
        Don't forget their continued lack of anything to compete with Heroku (that is, hook up to GitHub, deploy automatically from master, with less than 20 clicks in the web UI). EBS was never it, and Lambda is a different type of product (and also won't autodeploy from your GitHub master without custom CI/actions/whatever). Then there's Lightsail, which is perhaps the lamest DO ripoff that could possibly be engineered. I'm sure there are other examples, too, but those are the ones with which I'm familiar.
        manigandham 6y ago
        It doesn’t guarantee that they can execute, only that they can easily do so with that much money. Not everything needs to be conquered nor makes sense to do so at that scale.
  - nrmitchi 6y ago
    > enterprise value-add can be replicated by a two pizza team and that team is cheaper than your licensing fees This is always easier if the starting point of that two-pizza team is fairly close to "clone the version that already works, change the name, and run the deploy script". > We do this all the time on a smaller scale at our company to avoid license fees There is a huge difference between you doing something for your in-house use, and Amazon doing something in order to turn around and re-sell it.
    - Spivak 6y ago
      > This is always easier if the starting point of that two-pizza team is fairly close to "clone the version that already works, change the name, and run the deploy script". This model only works with the OSS/community versions of software. If the the only value of your hosted offering is the hosting I would expect you to get eaten by a company with cheaper hosting costs than you. I'm talking specifically about a clean-room reimplementation of proprietary add-ons that typically make up the "enterprise" version of lots of software.
      - nrmitchi 6y ago
        > If the the only value of your hosted offering is the hosting I would expect you to get eaten by a company with cheaper hosting costs than you By this logic Google and Amazon should just own-all-the-things because they have the cheapest hosting costs? > I'm talking specifically about a clean-room reimplementation of proprietary add-ons that typically make up the "enterprise" version of lots of software. I don't know what you mean here. As far as I know this is not what is being discussed. Amazon has done no "clean-room reimplementation" here.
        Spivak 6y ago
        That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that if you write a piece of OSS software and your plan to monetize it is just hosting it then you're going to get eaten by companies who are better at hosting than you. Your valuable asset and your core business is your software not your ops. Next, if the way you plan to monetize your OSS software is by selling a proprietary "enterprise" version but the features that version includes are easy to clone and your licensing costs are high then large companies will just hire people to develop their own in-house version and they might kill your business by open sourcing their version because they don't need to sell their in-house version to make it worth the cost.
  - gabereiser 6y ago
    While I get the sentiment, this activity is what is killing open source. If you like a tool, contribute or license it to keep it a float. Don’t just rip it and do your own thing. There are maintenance costs that aren’t associated with the feature development. There are liabilities, legalese, indemnity, etc you should worry about. Support open source.
    - sneak 6y ago
      Free software means freedom to modify it and build a paid service from your private fork. If you can't do that, it's not free software, despite what the AGPL torch-carriers think. Freedom means free to do things that may be contrary to the desires and interests of the original authors: this is why software with "no military/no missiles/no bombs/etc" clauses in their licenses are not free software.
      - Spivak 6y ago
        And why the JSON license isn't Free or Open Source since you're not allowed to use it for evil.
sciurus 6y ago
> We are also collaborating with AWS on its new Amazon Managed Service for Prometheus, built on the Cortex project for running Prometheus at scale. That's even more exciting news. But this also must have major implications for Grafana Labs, since selling hosted prometheus is also a part of their business. Edit: Found the announcement at https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/join-the-preview-amazon-managed-service-for-prometheus-amp/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/join-the-preview-amazon-man...
simonebrunozzi 6y ago
> Both companies stand to benefit, I wouldn't be so sure.
valyala 6y ago
It is great that Amazon is going to provide both Managed Service for Grafana and Managed Service for Prometheus [1]. This will simplify infrastructure monitoring and application monitoring in AWS with widespread Prometheus+Grafana stack. The only downside is quite high prices for Managed Prometheus. They can be explained by high operational and infrastructure costs for the underlying system - Cortex. There are other Prometheus-compatible scalable long-term storage systems, which could require much lower costs [2]. I hope costs for Amazon Managed Prometheus will be reduced in the long run. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25432729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25432729 [2] https://github.com/VictoriaMetrics/VictoriaMetrics/wiki/FAQ#what-is-the-difference-between-victoriametrics-and-cortex https://github.com/VictoriaMetrics/VictoriaMetrics/wiki/FAQ#...

by luhn 6y ago

tempest_ 6y ago

Assuming they didnt make them an offer they couldn't refuse. You know, work with us or we'll OpenDistro you.

Spivak 6y ago
This is how software is supposed to work. If your enterprise value-add can be replicated by a two pizza team and that team is cheaper than your licensing fees then it's barely even a question as to whether it's worth it. We do this all the time on a smaller scale at our company to avoid license fees. We need one small feature from the enterprise offering so we implement it ourselves to say with the free oss/community version.
- judge2020 6y ago
  Except that Amazon isn't "a two pizza team", it's a 1.5 trillion dollar company that could replicate any startup ever with 6-12 months and a hundred engineers.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I think in the business world this would be called "not having a moat." There's basically only one to proceed if your product can be semi-trivially copied by someone throwing money at the problem. You have to sell it to them for less than it would cost to build in-house. Sure they could throw money at the problem but they won't when it's cheaper to just buy it.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      When you have that much money, moats don't matter.
      - treeman79 6y ago
        Code commit. It is so horrible compared to GitHub.
        sneak 6y ago
        Don't forget their continued lack of anything to compete with Heroku (that is, hook up to GitHub, deploy automatically from master, with less than 20 clicks in the web UI). EBS was never it, and Lambda is a different type of product (and also won't autodeploy from your GitHub master without custom CI/actions/whatever). Then there's Lightsail, which is perhaps the lamest DO ripoff that could possibly be engineered. I'm sure there are other examples, too, but those are the ones with which I'm familiar.
        manigandham 6y ago
        It doesn’t guarantee that they can execute, only that they can easily do so with that much money. Not everything needs to be conquered nor makes sense to do so at that scale.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  > enterprise value-add can be replicated by a two pizza team and that team is cheaper than your licensing fees This is always easier if the starting point of that two-pizza team is fairly close to "clone the version that already works, change the name, and run the deploy script". > We do this all the time on a smaller scale at our company to avoid license fees There is a huge difference between you doing something for your in-house use, and Amazon doing something in order to turn around and re-sell it.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    > This is always easier if the starting point of that two-pizza team is fairly close to "clone the version that already works, change the name, and run the deploy script". This model only works with the OSS/community versions of software. If the the only value of your hosted offering is the hosting I would expect you to get eaten by a company with cheaper hosting costs than you. I'm talking specifically about a clean-room reimplementation of proprietary add-ons that typically make up the "enterprise" version of lots of software.
    - nrmitchi 6y ago
      > If the the only value of your hosted offering is the hosting I would expect you to get eaten by a company with cheaper hosting costs than you By this logic Google and Amazon should just own-all-the-things because they have the cheapest hosting costs? > I'm talking specifically about a clean-room reimplementation of proprietary add-ons that typically make up the "enterprise" version of lots of software. I don't know what you mean here. As far as I know this is not what is being discussed. Amazon has done no "clean-room reimplementation" here.
      - Spivak 6y ago
        That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that if you write a piece of OSS software and your plan to monetize it is just hosting it then you're going to get eaten by companies who are better at hosting than you. Your valuable asset and your core business is your software not your ops. Next, if the way you plan to monetize your OSS software is by selling a proprietary "enterprise" version but the features that version includes are easy to clone and your licensing costs are high then large companies will just hire people to develop their own in-house version and they might kill your business by open sourcing their version because they don't need to sell their in-house version to make it worth the cost.
- gabereiser 6y ago
  While I get the sentiment, this activity is what is killing open source. If you like a tool, contribute or license it to keep it a float. Don’t just rip it and do your own thing. There are maintenance costs that aren’t associated with the feature development. There are liabilities, legalese, indemnity, etc you should worry about. Support open source.
  - sneak 6y ago
    Free software means freedom to modify it and build a paid service from your private fork. If you can't do that, it's not free software, despite what the AGPL torch-carriers think. Freedom means free to do things that may be contrary to the desires and interests of the original authors: this is why software with "no military/no missiles/no bombs/etc" clauses in their licenses are not free software.
    - Spivak 6y ago
      And why the JSON license isn't Free or Open Source since you're not allowed to use it for evil.

sciurus 6y ago

> We are also collaborating with AWS on its new Amazon Managed Service for Prometheus, built on the Cortex project for running Prometheus at scale. That's even more exciting news. But this also must have major implications for Grafana Labs, since selling hosted prometheus is also a part of their business. Edit: Found the announcement at https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/join-the-preview-amazon-managed-service-for-prometheus-amp/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/join-the-preview-amazon-man...

simonebrunozzi 6y ago

> Both companies stand to benefit, I wouldn't be so sure.

valyala 6y ago

It is great that Amazon is going to provide both Managed Service for Grafana and Managed Service for Prometheus [1]. This will simplify infrastructure monitoring and application monitoring in AWS with widespread Prometheus+Grafana stack. The only downside is quite high prices for Managed Prometheus. They can be explained by high operational and infrastructure costs for the underlying system - Cortex. There are other Prometheus-compatible scalable long-term storage systems, which could require much lower costs [2]. I hope costs for Amazon Managed Prometheus will be reduced in the long run. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25432729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25432729 [2] https://github.com/VictoriaMetrics/VictoriaMetrics/wiki/FAQ#what-is-the-difference-between-victoriametrics-and-cortex https://github.com/VictoriaMetrics/VictoriaMetrics/wiki/FAQ#...