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In another discussion on philosophy someone mentioned a principle they didn't have a name for, but applies here as well. Their example was that you can ethicall

In another discussion on philosophy someone mentioned a principle they didn't have a name for, but applies here as well. Their example was that you can ethically look at a license plate and memorize it, but if you get a network of people at strategic positions of a town to meticulously write down all license plates 24/7 and collect this in a central place, that becomes an unethical/illegal privacy violation. Enough quantitative change becomes qualitative. Ice is just a bunch of water molecules just a bit differently organized. Graphite is worthless, even though it's the same atoms as diamond, but differently organized. Many people joining together into a corporation can become its own thing, acting as if it had "goals" on its own that may be not in line with the goals of the individual participants. Corporations are real entities separate from individuals. It's emergence. It's a "socially constructed" entity but no less real. Yuval Harari describes this very convincingly in Sapiens.

s1artibartfast 6y ago
Im not sure I follow your opening premise. Why is strategic tracking of license plates unethical? I am pretty sure it is not illegal. You can pay a private detective to follow someone around town taking pictures.
- bonoboTP 6y ago
  In Europe, even before the GDPR, but especially after it, this would be illegal. It's personally identifiable information and tracking it requires consent. Private investigators - not sure how legal that is around here and what are the constraints. Example - for a job application I recently needed a background check by a US company. As soon as I filled out my current location as a European country, a consent form popped up. They can't go sniffing around even in the public records and compile stacks of background info on people at the scale a company does this. Lots of things are public outdoors only with the common sense understanding that it's ephemeral, is just remembered by people's imperfect memory and won't be meticulously categorized and stored somewhere, unless there is consent. Now, you can make small scale notes and a personal journal about whom you got to know at a party etc. You can take tourist shots and have random people in the pictures but you can't follow people around and photograph them specifically as the main subject of the photo without their consent. Public figures and officials like the police don't have such privacy rights on duty. It's about the scale of it, and common sense judgment of whether it systematic data collection or something just happening normally as life goes on. But I'm not a lawyer, I'm just describing the broad principle. The law and people's intuition may be different in the US. ---- If you don't like this, think about another example: hitting/patting your friend on the back as banter or congratulations or something. How strongly do I have to hit them to commit assault? What if it's my frail grandma? Intent, scale and common sense matter. There is no law saying the exact amount of force I am allowed to apply.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    >The law and people's intuition may be different in the US. I think this is it precisely. I agree with you that intent, scale and common sense matter. Some of this can be included in the law or left up to a judge/magistrate to decide. Going back to the premise of the article, before we design a privacy law for targeted advertising, we have to agree on what constitutes a level of manipulation so great it effectively takes agency away from those targeted.

s1artibartfast 6y ago

Im not sure I follow your opening premise. Why is strategic tracking of license plates unethical? I am pretty sure it is not illegal. You can pay a private detective to follow someone around town taking pictures.

bonoboTP 6y ago
In Europe, even before the GDPR, but especially after it, this would be illegal. It's personally identifiable information and tracking it requires consent. Private investigators - not sure how legal that is around here and what are the constraints. Example - for a job application I recently needed a background check by a US company. As soon as I filled out my current location as a European country, a consent form popped up. They can't go sniffing around even in the public records and compile stacks of background info on people at the scale a company does this. Lots of things are public outdoors only with the common sense understanding that it's ephemeral, is just remembered by people's imperfect memory and won't be meticulously categorized and stored somewhere, unless there is consent. Now, you can make small scale notes and a personal journal about whom you got to know at a party etc. You can take tourist shots and have random people in the pictures but you can't follow people around and photograph them specifically as the main subject of the photo without their consent. Public figures and officials like the police don't have such privacy rights on duty. It's about the scale of it, and common sense judgment of whether it systematic data collection or something just happening normally as life goes on. But I'm not a lawyer, I'm just describing the broad principle. The law and people's intuition may be different in the US. ---- If you don't like this, think about another example: hitting/patting your friend on the back as banter or congratulations or something. How strongly do I have to hit them to commit assault? What if it's my frail grandma? Intent, scale and common sense matter. There is no law saying the exact amount of force I am allowed to apply.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  >The law and people's intuition may be different in the US. I think this is it precisely. I agree with you that intent, scale and common sense matter. Some of this can be included in the law or left up to a judge/magistrate to decide. Going back to the premise of the article, before we design a privacy law for targeted advertising, we have to agree on what constitutes a level of manipulation so great it effectively takes agency away from those targeted.