7 ms·

Which is great. A high property tax keeps the price of housing down (what people will pay for a house is cost per month, basically mortgage plus property tax),

Which is great. A high property tax keeps the price of housing down (what people will pay for a house is cost per month, basically mortgage plus property tax), makes people want to have new housing built so that housing prices don't go up, and promotes a general attitude of anti-NIMBYism. Just the opposite of California with its low property tax and very aristocratic prop 13 problem.

fokinsean 6y ago
> A high property tax keeps the price of housing down Have you seen Austin prices recently, it's getting pretty hectic in "core" Austin. > promotes a general attitude of anti-NIMBYism This isn't entirely true. In the recent election there was a public transit bill in Austin which would raise prop taxes by 4% I think. Even though it passed there was a hefty amount of opposition to supporting it, and generally anything that deals with raising prop taxes. Also in my local neighborhood (north central austin) there is plenty of nimbyism regarding planned multifamily construction.
- njarboe 6y ago
  Well, Austin is has been known for decades as the one city in Texas where people with "California" like values can feel at home. They have immigrated en-mass and continue to change the native culture at a rapid rate, I would imagine.
ylhert 6y ago
I totally agree and I think property taxes are way more fair and equitable for a society than income taxes. Usually we tax behaviors we want to curb. Income taxes disincentivize people from earning more, whereas property taxes are a consumption tax. In my mind this makes way more sense, and there's good data to suggest property taxes are the best/most efficient way to gain needed revenue for a city but do the least "damage" to economic prosperity
- giantg2 6y ago
  "I totally agree and I think property taxes are way more fair and equitable for a society than income taxes." Until you retire and no longer can pay the tax and are kicked out of your home. Logically, it makes more sense to tax people who are actually making money (income and capital gains) since that means they actually have money. Taxing people on a fundamental need (shelter) could potentially increase homelessness, especially if you hit a rough time economically like with the pandemic. "Income taxes disincentivize people from earning more" I don't see how flat or even marginal income taxes disincentivize people from making more money.
  - lukeramsden 6y ago
    Couldn't you give property tax breaks to retirees, or to people temporarily out of work?
    - giantg2 6y ago
      You could. But you see, that's really working as an income tax then, but even less efficiently/equitably because you now need a mechanism and oversight to classify people/households as retired/out of work and that classification may not be taking into account the difference between someone making more money in retirement than others might make while working. For example, if I'm retired and making 5% annually on $5M dollars, that's more income than many working class people. Why should I get a break on property tax? If it's income tax, then it applies to everyone equally and you don't need special exceptions for people who lost their income since it would automatically remove the need to pay the tax (no income to withhold from).
    - gangstead 6y ago
      Seniors do get a slight property tax discount here in Texas. Still I suppose it does encourage people to downsize when they are empty nesters and no longer need to house a big family. In California you get the opposite problem where people can't afford to move as their needs change since their property tax would no longer be kept low.
majormajor 6y ago
Somehow my hometown suburbs, and where the rest of my family still lives, still found plenty of motivation for NIMBYism and desiring property value appreciation. You're confusing "you can grow outward with single-family-homes near indefinitely" with "we want more apartment buildings near our precious houses!" You still get a lot of the same problems, you've just changed the complexion of the traffic problems...
corpMaverick 6y ago
True about keeping housing prices down. Also the money you pay goes to schools and infrastructure. Instead of going towards a big mortgage and interests.

fokinsean 6y ago

> A high property tax keeps the price of housing down Have you seen Austin prices recently, it's getting pretty hectic in "core" Austin. > promotes a general attitude of anti-NIMBYism This isn't entirely true. In the recent election there was a public transit bill in Austin which would raise prop taxes by 4% I think. Even though it passed there was a hefty amount of opposition to supporting it, and generally anything that deals with raising prop taxes. Also in my local neighborhood (north central austin) there is plenty of nimbyism regarding planned multifamily construction.

njarboe 6y ago
Well, Austin is has been known for decades as the one city in Texas where people with "California" like values can feel at home. They have immigrated en-mass and continue to change the native culture at a rapid rate, I would imagine.

ylhert 6y ago

I totally agree and I think property taxes are way more fair and equitable for a society than income taxes. Usually we tax behaviors we want to curb. Income taxes disincentivize people from earning more, whereas property taxes are a consumption tax. In my mind this makes way more sense, and there's good data to suggest property taxes are the best/most efficient way to gain needed revenue for a city but do the least "damage" to economic prosperity

giantg2 6y ago
"I totally agree and I think property taxes are way more fair and equitable for a society than income taxes." Until you retire and no longer can pay the tax and are kicked out of your home. Logically, it makes more sense to tax people who are actually making money (income and capital gains) since that means they actually have money. Taxing people on a fundamental need (shelter) could potentially increase homelessness, especially if you hit a rough time economically like with the pandemic. "Income taxes disincentivize people from earning more" I don't see how flat or even marginal income taxes disincentivize people from making more money.
- lukeramsden 6y ago
  Couldn't you give property tax breaks to retirees, or to people temporarily out of work?
  - giantg2 6y ago
    You could. But you see, that's really working as an income tax then, but even less efficiently/equitably because you now need a mechanism and oversight to classify people/households as retired/out of work and that classification may not be taking into account the difference between someone making more money in retirement than others might make while working. For example, if I'm retired and making 5% annually on $5M dollars, that's more income than many working class people. Why should I get a break on property tax? If it's income tax, then it applies to everyone equally and you don't need special exceptions for people who lost their income since it would automatically remove the need to pay the tax (no income to withhold from).
  - gangstead 6y ago
    Seniors do get a slight property tax discount here in Texas. Still I suppose it does encourage people to downsize when they are empty nesters and no longer need to house a big family. In California you get the opposite problem where people can't afford to move as their needs change since their property tax would no longer be kept low.

majormajor 6y ago

Somehow my hometown suburbs, and where the rest of my family still lives, still found plenty of motivation for NIMBYism and desiring property value appreciation. You're confusing "you can grow outward with single-family-homes near indefinitely" with "we want more apartment buildings near our precious houses!" You still get a lot of the same problems, you've just changed the complexion of the traffic problems...

corpMaverick 6y ago

True about keeping housing prices down. Also the money you pay goes to schools and infrastructure. Instead of going towards a big mortgage and interests.