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Apple can make an anti-tracking computer but nothing they do can make an anti-tracking phone. It is a "cell" phone. The very nature of cell phones means the bas

Apple can make an anti-tracking computer but nothing they do can make an anti-tracking phone. It is a "cell" phone. The very nature of cell phones means the basestations have to decide where you are and which cell takes your connections. With precise clocks and multi-lateration the position of your handset is known to about 50m. All US telco keep this location data (which is constantly updated) for 2 to 5 years. And they sell it too. No, there is no privacy oriented, no anti-tracking, cell phone. None of them are capable of this. And no amount of "privacy" functions in the user computer will make up for the intrinsic nature of cell phones. Because cell phones are so incredibly useful people bend over backwards mentally to try to ignore this. They get angry when it's pointed out because it's "irrelevant". But it isn't. This is real tracking of you. Far worse than any "internet" tracking.

jmull 6y ago
This is about tracking your internet activity, not physical location/movements.
- snarf21 6y ago
  Your carrier has that correlation. They route all your packets. It doesn't matter if it is Comcast at home or Verizon/Att on the go. They know where you live and work and track you 24/7. Facebook is simply going to make a deal to have a unique ID added to URL metadata and then tracking is even more trivial. We need legislation to guarantee true net neutrality. Just like the electric company doesn't track/sell what I use my electricity on, the ISP shouldn't track/sell what I use my data.
  - jmull 6y ago
    Well, if you want to protect yourself you should understand this in more detail. At minimum you should be using https. Your ISP could generally know the domains you are communicating with (when and how much), but not about what. They also could not add metadata to requests. The ad tracking we're talking about in this post really needs those details, so the ISP isn't in a position to enable the kind of tracking Apple is blocking here. You can go further and use a VPN. Then all your ISP knows is that you use a VPN, but would not be able to tell anything else. Of course, you need to trust your VPN provider (including to properly secure their service), but if you're paying for one, at least your interests are aligned. (You pay your ISP, but they operate as semi monopolies and your privacy is not their primary business concern, so your interests don't really align that well.) I agree about not allowing ISPs to sell data, though I think it would be OK if properly anonymized.
eganist 6y ago
Although for what its worth, I wonder if it's possible for a cell to throw telcos off by broadcasting at higher power and connecting randomly between more and less distant antennas. This is probably one of the dumber ideas I've come up with given that I have no idea how the different protocols for handshakes between cells and towers work. Looking to be educated on it here in the comments.
- superkuh 6y ago
  The client handset's location is not determined by the power. It's determined by timing. Higher power would only give more basestations ability to receive your signal and add greater resolution to their position solution.
  - alisonkisk 6y ago
    Add lag and randomize timing.
    - superkuh 6y ago
      This isn't over the internet. This is a radio signal over the air. First, your phone sends out a radio signal omnidirectionally. Then many basestations that know their own position and time very accurately receive it at slightly different times. They compare and use multi-lateration to determine where the broadcast had to come from.
- chungus_khan 6y ago
  Sounds like a great way to get your IMEI blacklisted by the carrier (and drop/miss calls a lot), and would not really stop them from triangulating your position (because you still have to be physically in range of all the towers, and would still be a determinable distance from them, being that distance is calculated using timing). Cellular modem firmwares are also generally pretty closely guarded and not flashable.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
rank0 6y ago
Tracking what I do on my device and tracking my physical location are very different things. It would be nice if there were regulations that protected my information from my telco provider.
foobiekr 6y ago
You can't make any internet-connected computer any more anonymous than a cell-connected computer. Your internet connection is as traceable and mostly using the same methods as your computer minus triangulation if you turn off wifi. Your provider knows the service address and pretty much everything else.

jmull 6y ago

This is about tracking your internet activity, not physical location/movements.

snarf21 6y ago
Your carrier has that correlation. They route all your packets. It doesn't matter if it is Comcast at home or Verizon/Att on the go. They know where you live and work and track you 24/7. Facebook is simply going to make a deal to have a unique ID added to URL metadata and then tracking is even more trivial. We need legislation to guarantee true net neutrality. Just like the electric company doesn't track/sell what I use my electricity on, the ISP shouldn't track/sell what I use my data.
- jmull 6y ago
  Well, if you want to protect yourself you should understand this in more detail. At minimum you should be using https. Your ISP could generally know the domains you are communicating with (when and how much), but not about what. They also could not add metadata to requests. The ad tracking we're talking about in this post really needs those details, so the ISP isn't in a position to enable the kind of tracking Apple is blocking here. You can go further and use a VPN. Then all your ISP knows is that you use a VPN, but would not be able to tell anything else. Of course, you need to trust your VPN provider (including to properly secure their service), but if you're paying for one, at least your interests are aligned. (You pay your ISP, but they operate as semi monopolies and your privacy is not their primary business concern, so your interests don't really align that well.) I agree about not allowing ISPs to sell data, though I think it would be OK if properly anonymized.

eganist 6y ago

Although for what its worth, I wonder if it's possible for a cell to throw telcos off by broadcasting at higher power and connecting randomly between more and less distant antennas. This is probably one of the dumber ideas I've come up with given that I have no idea how the different protocols for handshakes between cells and towers work. Looking to be educated on it here in the comments.

superkuh 6y ago
The client handset's location is not determined by the power. It's determined by timing. Higher power would only give more basestations ability to receive your signal and add greater resolution to their position solution.
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  Add lag and randomize timing.
  - superkuh 6y ago
    This isn't over the internet. This is a radio signal over the air. First, your phone sends out a radio signal omnidirectionally. Then many basestations that know their own position and time very accurately receive it at slightly different times. They compare and use multi-lateration to determine where the broadcast had to come from.
chungus_khan 6y ago
Sounds like a great way to get your IMEI blacklisted by the carrier (and drop/miss calls a lot), and would not really stop them from triangulating your position (because you still have to be physically in range of all the towers, and would still be a determinable distance from them, being that distance is calculated using timing). Cellular modem firmwares are also generally pretty closely guarded and not flashable.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

rank0 6y ago

Tracking what I do on my device and tracking my physical location are very different things. It would be nice if there were regulations that protected my information from my telco provider.

foobiekr 6y ago

You can't make any internet-connected computer any more anonymous than a cell-connected computer. Your internet connection is as traceable and mostly using the same methods as your computer minus triangulation if you turn off wifi. Your provider knows the service address and pretty much everything else.