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In my experience, people seem to think that the government can break any encryption, just because they're the government. I don't understand why people have th

by maqr 15y ago

In my experience, people seem to think that the government can break any encryption, just because they're the government. I don't understand why people have this impression.

bcaulf 15y ago
I've encountered this too. I attribute it to a lack of critical thinking skills. I think there's a fuzz between surveillance and codebreaking plus a simple lack of knowledge of how codes and codebreaking has changed so much due to use of computers. I think a lot of flawed understanding of codebreaking comes from fiction, where it's dealt with in a dramatic fashion as opposed to realistic.
- roel_v 15y ago
  I once worked with a computer programmer who did not "believe" that a one-way hash is theoretically possible. His reasoning was "if you transform something into something else with a computer program (a predetermined set of steps) it is also always possible, by reversing the steps, to get back to the original". I dramatically adjusted down the amount of reasoning I thought the 'average' person is capable of over the months that I tried to explain / convince him. It's very well possible that I wasn't able to explain because I don't fundamentally understand myself; but even all the 'circumstantial' evidence couldn't convince him. And that was from a person who, statistically and objectively speaking, is at least above the median in intelligence and thinking power.
  - dagw 15y ago
    I've found that the easiest way to explain one-way hashes is to start with the simplest example possible, a function isEven which takes and Int and returns 1 is the argument is even and 0 otherwise. Most people have no trouble accepting that, given only the output, it is impossible to work out what the original input was. Once they've accepted that, building up from there is relatively painless
abbasmehdi 15y ago
No, but it can throw more money at a problem. The point I was making is deeper pockets win, and no one can compete with the defense budgets. They can enlist the help of brighter minds than any criminal orginization (access to better talent pool). India and China, who don't care about personal privacy as much as the US, gloat about doing this all the time, often to US companies' data. The US gov't does have the right to wiretap and snoop under the Patriot Act, but it does not have to have the luxury to share with the American public because Americans value privacy highly.
- maqr 15y ago
  No amount of money in the world is going to make any difference for the problem of cracking strong encryption.
  - abbasmehdi 15y ago
    Encryption in itself is a red flag.
    - weavejester 15y ago
      Not necessarily. People use encryption every time they access a website over HTTPS. Encryption is also the default for many Bittorrent clients.
      - abbasmehdi 15y ago
        "People"? Like the typical net surfer in a semi-rural Pakistani internet cafe? Or people like you? There is a minor difference of "what you make in a day, they make in a year: with varying consequences like starkly differing internet usage habits, levels of education, general interests, privacy precautions etc. You're obviously having a hard time wrapping your head around the context here. The person sitting next to you in these cafes can barely read, the PCs are what was mainstream here in 1999. They are connected with 56k modems. I am not sure why you're struggling with getting out of your shoes. Watch this champ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUEGHdQO7WA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUEGHdQO7WA

by maqr 15y ago

In my experience, people seem to think that the government can break any encryption, just because they're the government. I don't understand why people have this impression.

bcaulf 15y ago

I've encountered this too. I attribute it to a lack of critical thinking skills. I think there's a fuzz between surveillance and codebreaking plus a simple lack of knowledge of how codes and codebreaking has changed so much due to use of computers. I think a lot of flawed understanding of codebreaking comes from fiction, where it's dealt with in a dramatic fashion as opposed to realistic.

roel_v 15y ago
I once worked with a computer programmer who did not "believe" that a one-way hash is theoretically possible. His reasoning was "if you transform something into something else with a computer program (a predetermined set of steps) it is also always possible, by reversing the steps, to get back to the original". I dramatically adjusted down the amount of reasoning I thought the 'average' person is capable of over the months that I tried to explain / convince him. It's very well possible that I wasn't able to explain because I don't fundamentally understand myself; but even all the 'circumstantial' evidence couldn't convince him. And that was from a person who, statistically and objectively speaking, is at least above the median in intelligence and thinking power.
- dagw 15y ago
  I've found that the easiest way to explain one-way hashes is to start with the simplest example possible, a function isEven which takes and Int and returns 1 is the argument is even and 0 otherwise. Most people have no trouble accepting that, given only the output, it is impossible to work out what the original input was. Once they've accepted that, building up from there is relatively painless

abbasmehdi 15y ago

No, but it can throw more money at a problem. The point I was making is deeper pockets win, and no one can compete with the defense budgets. They can enlist the help of brighter minds than any criminal orginization (access to better talent pool). India and China, who don't care about personal privacy as much as the US, gloat about doing this all the time, often to US companies' data. The US gov't does have the right to wiretap and snoop under the Patriot Act, but it does not have to have the luxury to share with the American public because Americans value privacy highly.

maqr 15y ago
No amount of money in the world is going to make any difference for the problem of cracking strong encryption.
- abbasmehdi 15y ago
  Encryption in itself is a red flag.
  - weavejester 15y ago
    Not necessarily. People use encryption every time they access a website over HTTPS. Encryption is also the default for many Bittorrent clients.
    - abbasmehdi 15y ago
      "People"? Like the typical net surfer in a semi-rural Pakistani internet cafe? Or people like you? There is a minor difference of "what you make in a day, they make in a year: with varying consequences like starkly differing internet usage habits, levels of education, general interests, privacy precautions etc. You're obviously having a hard time wrapping your head around the context here. The person sitting next to you in these cafes can barely read, the PCs are what was mainstream here in 1999. They are connected with 56k modems. I am not sure why you're struggling with getting out of your shoes. Watch this champ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUEGHdQO7WA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUEGHdQO7WA