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App privacy labels now live on the App Store

245 points by hboon 6y ago

runawaybottle 6y ago
These things read like legal terms of service notices, so pretty much not digestible for anyone. I guess full disclosure is a decent enough start. Really we need parental advisory ratings like we have for movies to easily know which apps sell data.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- chrisin2d 6y ago
  I just took a look. I find them rather abstract, verbose, and repetitive, like cookie notices. I too think it's a decent start. Personally I would use the labels to look into a certain few sensitive apps, anything health or dating-related. There are a dozen or so items split between three lists: (1) Data Used to Track You, (2) Data Linked to You, and (3) Data Not Linked to You. The distinction between (1) and (2) is not entirely clear. The language is ishy-washy: "The following data may be collected and linked to your identity." Is or isn't it? I would like to see firm language: "...data will be collected..." > Really we need parental advisory ratings like we have for movies to easily know which apps sell data. I agree. There's value in the App Store privacy labels if you really dive in, but I doubt that many people will scroll to the bottom of an app page to properly read the privacy label. I think it'd be useful for many users to see a punchy above-the-fold badge that says "Privacy-friendly", "Uses some personal data", or "Uses a lot of personal data" (or terser copy to those effects) and links to the detailed privacy label further down-page.
  - CodesInChaos 6y ago
    I think it's phrased "may be collected" because often data will only be collected under certain circumstances, either because the user chooses to fill in optional fields or because they use a specific feature requiring that data.
  - daveoc64 6y ago
    Your complaints are down to the nature of the "one size fits all" approach in use here. If an app offers 99% online experiences, and there's one part of the service where you can choose to have something physically shipped to you, they have to say that they collect your physical/mailing address. There's no way for the app to tell you when it does or doesn't do that. The same is true for many other things - optional 2FA via SMS (phone number), optional search for nearest location (location tracking) etc.
    - shuckles 6y ago
      It seems like the policy has an exception for infrequent data collection with user consent that’s not core to the functionality of your app (c.f. “Optional Disclosure”): https://developer.apple.com/app-store/app-privacy-details/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/app-privacy-details/
      - daveoc64 6y ago
        I'm glad there's an exception like that. It will mean that things like a form to contact support won't require an app to list a whole bunch of data that isn't normally collected. I think perhaps that there needs to be some better way of distinguishing how the categories work. Should anyone be surprised that Amazon needs payment details and an address to send you something?
WA 6y ago
Wow, nice, since my app is focused on privacy, this could become a huge marketing bonus. However, the questionaire seems quite complicated. I ask for the email adress and Apple wants to know if I connect the email address with the identity of a user. However, what does that even mean? I have no identity of a user except the email address.
- jonathanpoulter 6y ago
  Maybe they're looking to get a lot of granularity. Thinking of, https://haveibeenpwned.com/ https://haveibeenpwned.com/, you could give an email address and get value from the site, but there's no need for an account. Assuming you store the email that's certainly more of a privacy/security risk than using it once and throwing it away.
  - WA 6y ago
    Possibly. The wording is odd. It assumes that I have information about the identity of a user, but the only thing I have is the email address. If my app asks for more data, which are backed up as a service to the user (no tracking), that is of course connected to the email address of the account. However, there is no effort from my side to find the actual identity of the user. This whole identity thing is very confusing. Might need to contact Apple developer support.
    - nicoburns 6y ago
      Yeah, they even ask that about User ID. I just answered yes.
    - dwaite 6y ago
      The email address is considered information about the identity of a user. It is a very broad concept. If the user has state or permissions on your site based on that email address, that email address is part of the user's account on your site.
- floatingatoll 6y ago
  If you only have an email address and you make zero effort to cross-reference that with other data (using, for example, any datasets you purchased, or a marketing data enhancement system) then you are not connected their email address to their identity. This is discussed here (search for “identity”): https://developer.apple.com/app-store/app-privacy-details/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/app-privacy-details/ In contrast, when you provide Facebook an email address, they will explicitly pay a lot of databases to cross-reference your email address and tell Facebook your identity, your salary, and so on.
blindm 6y ago
This is so late to the game. I've been inspecting the traffic of iOS apps for a long time now, and have written to the developers asking them to remove these tracking beacons / analytics scripts. I created a wireless hotspot in Linux, connected my iDevice to it, and then opened Wireshark and was able to see all the traffic of the iDevice. I would encourage everyone to inspect the traffic of apps to gauge their privacy score.
- ekanes 6y ago
  Thanks. It could be useful since you might have more technical ability than many to say a bit more about what you found, if you're willing. Cheers!
- bfgoodrich 6y ago
  Late to the game? Who is Apple behind? Is this a "finally" kind of thing?
- gruez 6y ago
  A mass market solution is "late to the game" because some hobbyist can do it himself with lots of time and expertise? This sounds like the infamous "who needs dropbox when you can just do it yourself using FTP + curlftpfs + SVN/CVS?" comment on HN.
- sneak 6y ago
  Apple expressly permits all of that tracking in the apps in the App Store. They could ban they behavior, but they don't. They could sherlock Little Snitch or make an outbound network connection permission for apps, but they don't. They could surface the data an app is transmitting, or the hosts to which it connects, but they don't.
emptyparadise 6y ago
I hope this makes a strong impact. Invasive tracking is a menace.
- nvrGiveUp 6y ago
  App makers should not be allowed to collect data. Only Apple should be allowed to. And Apple should be opaque about it while running contradictory advertising about privacy and security. Btw is it gaslighting when Apple claims privacy but gives your information away to organizations like the US and Chinese government?
  - dathos 6y ago
    Nowhere does this change disallow app makers from collecting data, they just need to be transparant about it. Apple should be held to their own standards just as much. To your second point, which big company nowadays doesn't? Not saying that it's a thing we should accept but why bring it up here? Also, pleas don't use gaslighting when you mean marketing, imo it takes away from the severity of gaslighting.
  - tannedNerd 6y ago
    This is absolutely a position taken by someone who has never had to fix a bug on an apple device using only apple tools. Not being able to use instabug or crashalytics will put you behind other apps because only 20-30% of users enable bug reporting. You will miss crashes and bugs if you just use apple. Source: 10 years of building ios apps for FB, LI, etc
  - babypuncher 6y ago
    Apple doesn't have much choice when it comes to governments. They have resisted data collection efforts where they have legal ground to do so. If you want them to stop handing anything over to your government, you need to fix that with legislation.
  - emptyparadise 6y ago
    Apple shouldn't be allowed to collect data either.
ecmascript 6y ago
Will this apply to their own apps as well?
- CubsFan1060 6y ago
  Yes. Their apps that you can download from the app store will have it. The ones that are always on the phone will have the information on the website. See here: https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/9/22165959/apple-privacy-nutrition-labels-all-apps-preinstalled-messages-web https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/9/22165959/apple-privacy-nu... Edit: a quick look at "pages" in the mac app store shows that the privacy label is there.
  - bilal4hmed 6y ago
    Dont see anything for iMessage. If its supposed to be on the privacy page, then that is nowhere like what they are asking devs on the store.
    - shuckles 6y ago
      The first party apps not on App Store seem to have them linked through here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211970 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211970
    - zerointerupt 6y ago
      https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT211975 https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT211975
asplake 6y ago
Will the app store listing for my Sudoku game warn me (as to its credit my iPhone started doing, before I deleted the app in horror) that it pastes from the clipboard on startup?
- CodesInChaos 6y ago
  From what I remember, the old clipboard API didn't distinguish between an app inspecting the clipboard content (dangerous) and merely checking if the clipboard contains data and what its type is (harmless).
  - shuckles 6y ago
    Accessing pasteboard metadata doesn’t trigger the pill, though.
    - CodesInChaos 6y ago
      The way I understood it, many only apps triggered it because either the old API didn't offer a separate meta data access function, or they didn't know that they should use it.
      - shuckles 6y ago
        The types API has been available since iOS 3.0 which, IIRC, was when pasteboard was added to the system. Certainly there are apps which accessed the contents of pasteboard more than they should have because they weren't being punished for it.
- Razengan 6y ago
  A bunch of major apps like Discord do/did that too. WhatsApp also occasionally tries/tried to access photos for no reason, which I caught thanks to iOS 14's "Would you like to give this app access to more photos?" prompt. Then there's Instagram: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/07/25/instagram-unexpectedly-accessing-camera/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/07/25/instagram-unexpectedly-... It was iOS that outed them and not Android. This is why I prefer Apple to the other major corps; they're still the lesser evil among the sea of villainy out there.
ballenf 6y ago
The labels right now are just too pretty. They're also so far down on the app listing, that I doubt they'll be seen by much of anyone. Hopefully these issues are just v1 and down the road the privacy screen will more prominent and maybe less blah blah blah looking. Or maybe there'll be filtering options in the App Store: "hide apps that correlate offline user data", e.g.
- coldpie 6y ago
  A filter option would be great, yeah. Just eliminate a whole class of garbage apps.
- spideymans 6y ago
  I’d suggest that the privacy screen should be shown on app launch in iOS 15. Apple already does a similar privacy splash screen on launch of their own apps
ir77 6y ago
checked it out today when i saw this article. just recently got an apple watch and has been using for health tracking and was very pleased to see that two of my fav apps: + Work outdoors + Heart Analyzier collect absolutely no data, everything stays on my watch. considering the plethora of personal information that something like garmin, strava or suunto collect, this is incredible, more people shoudl be cognizant of this.
- tomcatfish 6y ago
  Defense of Garmin: I recently got a smartwatch from them and can use it entirely offline, so they do not necessarily collect that much information.
sneak 6y ago
Apple's labeling efforts do not appear to be requiring that apps that see/log a user's IP address disclose their collection of user location. That seems like an oversight to me. IP addresses are coarse user location data.
sneak 6y ago
It's impossible to download free apps on iOS (via the App Store) without giving Apple an email address, phone number, and street address. Additionally, opening the App Store app on iOS sends your IP (coarse location) and device serial number to Apple. Logging in to download associates that serial with your email, street address, and phone number. Every iOS device, and now every mac, connects to the Apple push server with a certificate tied to its serial number, and of course sends the client IP (and thus coarse device location). Apple has your travel history, and the travel history of every iOS device by serial number. As of Big Sur, they have it for each and every mac, too. On the mac, you can't install a VPN app without providing your identification to Apple, because the NetworkExtension app entitlements to do that are only given out for App Store apps. This is why windows users can download wireguard from the wireguard website, but mac users cannot. App Store only! I am not really that convinced that Apple cares that much about protecting consumer privacy.
- darkwizard42 6y ago
  Apple having that information doesn't mean they don't care about protecting consumer privacy...they still have to KYC (Know Your Customer). The reason you can trust Apple (for now) about protecting consumer privacy is that they aren't selling it to unknown third-parties make MORE money off of you. If Apple has your data its going to ONLY be used by Apple and only in ways you understand (at least that's the marketing push)
  - sneak 6y ago
    > they still have to KYC (Know Your Customer). This is false. KYC regulations do not apply to app stores, only banking and financial services: regulated industries. Furthermore, nothing requires Apple restrict App Store downloads of free apps to logged in/registered users only. This is a hoop they make people jump through so that there is less friction at time of purchase of a paid app or (more importantly) a "free" app's IAP. It's a signupwall hustle. > The reason you can trust Apple (for now) about protecting consumer privacy is that they aren't selling it to unknown third-parties make MORE money off of you. Apple sent the data of over 30,000 users to the US government last year without a warrant or probable cause, per Apple's own transparency report (look under the FISA orders category—this is the stuff that Ed Snowden disclosed under the internal/classified codename PRISM). Data brokers can't cause federal prosecutors to harass me because I said something they didn't like. The federal government can.
humblepie 6y ago
It would be nice if I can filter apps based on these labels while browsing the App Store. Or even determine which of my existing apps fall under which label(s).
- s3r3nity 6y ago
  I’m sure this is one of those things that’s on the launch roadmap once you can get developers to actually adopt the badge. Then once there’s a critical mass there’ll be a combination of manual filters and/or automated ranking (ex: if my kid is in the App Store, they only see privacy-friendly apps.)
jws 6y ago
As a developer, if you do not collect information, compliance is trivial. Go to AppStoreConnect for your App, see "App Privacy" on the sidebar, "get started", tell it you don't collect data. And you are done. Edit: Doh! And also notice the blue "Publish" button in the upper right. Press that and get threatened. Then your data is ready. Otherwise when you go to push your update it will tell you to go fill in the App Privacy data. The next time you upload you will have a label.
- s3cur3 6y ago
  Proud developer of a "Data Not Collected" app here. Makes writing a privacy policy simple! :D https://www.unboundapp.com/privacy-policy.html https://www.unboundapp.com/privacy-policy.html
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    Your app shares a lot of data with a third party, however, including payment and usage information.
    - s3cur3 6y ago
      Nnnnnope. If you opt to purchase it via the Mac App Store, that's between you & Apple—it happens entirely apart from the app.
      - lern_too_spel 6y ago
        If there is no other way to get the app, the end user loss in privacy is exactly the same.
        s3cur3 6y ago
        If someone would like to arrange a back-alley cash deal, I'm happy to provide a binary on a CD-ROM. But if I'm accepting money over the internet, a third party is necessarily going to be involved, because I'm not a bank and I can't process payments myself. It's kind of a bizarre criticism to say that Mac software is sold via the Mac App Store...
wayneftw 6y ago
I wish I could search by: - Price. -Has ads? - User Ratings. - In-app purchases. Does anyone know if there is a search engine that will let me discover apps this way? Like this, but for iOS - https://playsearch.kaki87.net/ https://playsearch.kaki87.net/
- sneak 6y ago
  It's in Apple's financial interest to have people install more apps with IAPs, as Apple currently charges their captive audience 10x the market rate for payment processing inside of apps and makes a lot of money from these purchases. I wouldn't hold my breath for Apple to develop a filter that lets you find only non-IAP apps.
  - thewebcount 6y ago
    They made a whole service (Apple Arcade) just to allow users to avoid in-app purchases, ads, and tracking in games. Oh, and loot boxes, too, probably. I don't think they're above letting users do that sort of filtering.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Apple gets subscription money out of that, of course…
  - wayneftw 6y ago
    Seems like a like a good opportunity for a third party solution.
    - mthoms 6y ago
      I wonder how this could be monetized though? Apple dropped their affiliate program for the App store quite a while back.
      - wayneftw 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mikece 6y ago
This is LONG overdue and I hope it at least shows users as much info per app as Google Play does where you can inspect the permissions the app requests/requires (though the distinction between request and require would be nice). It would also be nice to have persistent search filters in the app store search like "don't show me any apps which request access to my contacts or location"... though I suspect it will take people dying because their stalkers found them through an app's location info for this to happen.
- sonotmyname 6y ago
  > This is LONG overdue and I hope it at least shows users as much info per app as Google Play does where you can inspect the permissions the app requests/requires This is not that feature at all - iOS has had the ability to show/control permissions since they have had permissions, and an app cannot require unrelated permissions to function. This is about data that is collected, and how it's used - not app permissions.
makecheck 6y ago
These lists are a little “cookie warning” style and might be easily ignored. I would like to see a mode in the phone itself where I can see a filtered list of apps based on features I opt in to. Examples: - “Show all apps that collect no data”: <<90% of my Home Screen icons fade out>> - If you’re currently logged in to some account, a mode that shows you which apps “know” that you’re using this account. I think a visual approach would make it clearer to users what features of their phone are applicable in each situation.
herf 6y ago
Looks like they treat "opt in" data collection the same way they treat silent collection that's turned on by default? This seems like a bad incentive, because there should be a benefit to being careful about opt-in.
- shuckles 6y ago
  By law, all data collection must be opt-in, but that’s usually accomplished through privacy notices that nobody reads. I presume they had to deal with some complexity here as a result. The questionnaire is ambiguous enough as it is.
aasasd 6y ago
Where did they live before?
- s3cur3 6y ago
  Theoretically in the developer's privacy policy. In practice, nowhere.
- tnorthcutt 6y ago
  They didn't; the title means "these are now live (present) on the app store", as opposed to "these now live on the app store, instead of the place they were living before"
makecheck 6y ago
They definitely need a special case for “no data collected”. It should say something very direct like “This app does NOT collect any data.”. Instead, the App Store listing includes this extremely awkward set of phrases: “The developer, $DEVELOPER has indicated that the app’s privacy practices may include handling of data as described below: Data Not Collected The developer does not collect any data from this app.”
- barkerja 6y ago
  They do, actually. If you look up the Halide camera app, you'll see a great example of this.
  - TheNewAndy 6y ago
    I think the original poster has seen an example of this, and they think apple could go further. I certainly was surprised to see the sentence: "Privacy practices may vary, for example, based on the features you use or your age." I filled in the questions in app store connect recently, and since it is just a simple game without anything remotely privacy invading, I happily answered all the questions in the most "privacy respecting" way. To then see this sentence hinting that the privacy stuff might be different if people use unspecified features, or be particular ages... that is certainly a surprise.
    - barkerja 6y ago
      It does say that, but it's also a very clear and bold "Data Not Collected" See screenshot: https://share.barkerja.dev/4vgEhw.jpeg https://share.barkerja.dev/4vgEhw.jpeg
      - makecheck 6y ago
        My issue is the whole “privacy practices may include handling of data as described below”, which on first read always sounds like “great, this app is handling my data for some reason”, only to be followed by “no data collected”. It’s pointlessly verbose to get that point across.
Klonoar 6y ago
One thing I'm confused by with this: an APNS token is, technically, a device identifier... so should every app that uses push notifications be electing under Device ID? If so, I would _really_ appreciate it if there was some language stating "for push notifications only" or something, because as it sounds right now it comes across like something else.
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
  Every app gets its own APNs token. Developers cannot collude to track people with them.
tmsh 6y ago
Need to upgrade to iOS 14.3 to see them.
zeropointone 6y ago
That's a nice start for Apple. But for now it indeed looks like a cookie request on any website nowadays. The real question is whether Apple is going to verify the information provided by the app developers. Will Apple do some kind of information flow control (IFC) through taint tracking on the app code, to make sure that the user name or location is not collected as the app description says?
rsync 6y ago
What about app permissions ? I frequently want to see, before installing, what permissions an iOS app requires, or will at least attempt to use. AFAICT this information is not available anywhere in the app store even though it is known and could easily be listed. Has that changed ?
gigatexal 6y ago
Yep. I love this. If it encourages devs to think twice about incorporating some library from Facebook just for easy login or something then I’ll be happy. In fact I’m going to be looking at these labels and making buying/subscribing decisions from them.

245 points by hboon 6y ago

These things read like legal terms of service notices, so pretty much not digestible for anyone. I guess full disclosure is a decent enough start. Really we need parental advisory ratings like we have for movies to easily know which apps sell data.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
chrisin2d 6y ago
I just took a look. I find them rather abstract, verbose, and repetitive, like cookie notices. I too think it's a decent start. Personally I would use the labels to look into a certain few sensitive apps, anything health or dating-related. There are a dozen or so items split between three lists: (1) Data Used to Track You, (2) Data Linked to You, and (3) Data Not Linked to You. The distinction between (1) and (2) is not entirely clear. The language is ishy-washy: "The following data may be collected and linked to your identity." Is or isn't it? I would like to see firm language: "...data will be collected..." > Really we need parental advisory ratings like we have for movies to easily know which apps sell data. I agree. There's value in the App Store privacy labels if you really dive in, but I doubt that many people will scroll to the bottom of an app page to properly read the privacy label. I think it'd be useful for many users to see a punchy above-the-fold badge that says "Privacy-friendly", "Uses some personal data", or "Uses a lot of personal data" (or terser copy to those effects) and links to the detailed privacy label further down-page.
- CodesInChaos 6y ago
  I think it's phrased "may be collected" because often data will only be collected under certain circumstances, either because the user chooses to fill in optional fields or because they use a specific feature requiring that data.
- daveoc64 6y ago
  Your complaints are down to the nature of the "one size fits all" approach in use here. If an app offers 99% online experiences, and there's one part of the service where you can choose to have something physically shipped to you, they have to say that they collect your physical/mailing address. There's no way for the app to tell you when it does or doesn't do that. The same is true for many other things - optional 2FA via SMS (phone number), optional search for nearest location (location tracking) etc.
  - shuckles 6y ago
    It seems like the policy has an exception for infrequent data collection with user consent that’s not core to the functionality of your app (c.f. “Optional Disclosure”): https://developer.apple.com/app-store/app-privacy-details/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/app-privacy-details/
    - daveoc64 6y ago
      I'm glad there's an exception like that. It will mean that things like a form to contact support won't require an app to list a whole bunch of data that isn't normally collected. I think perhaps that there needs to be some better way of distinguishing how the categories work. Should anyone be surprised that Amazon needs payment details and an address to send you something?

WA 6y ago

Wow, nice, since my app is focused on privacy, this could become a huge marketing bonus. However, the questionaire seems quite complicated. I ask for the email adress and Apple wants to know if I connect the email address with the identity of a user. However, what does that even mean? I have no identity of a user except the email address.

jonathanpoulter 6y ago
Maybe they're looking to get a lot of granularity. Thinking of, https://haveibeenpwned.com/ https://haveibeenpwned.com/, you could give an email address and get value from the site, but there's no need for an account. Assuming you store the email that's certainly more of a privacy/security risk than using it once and throwing it away.
- WA 6y ago
  Possibly. The wording is odd. It assumes that I have information about the identity of a user, but the only thing I have is the email address. If my app asks for more data, which are backed up as a service to the user (no tracking), that is of course connected to the email address of the account. However, there is no effort from my side to find the actual identity of the user. This whole identity thing is very confusing. Might need to contact Apple developer support.
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    Yeah, they even ask that about User ID. I just answered yes.
  - dwaite 6y ago
    The email address is considered information about the identity of a user. It is a very broad concept. If the user has state or permissions on your site based on that email address, that email address is part of the user's account on your site.
floatingatoll 6y ago
If you only have an email address and you make zero effort to cross-reference that with other data (using, for example, any datasets you purchased, or a marketing data enhancement system) then you are not connected their email address to their identity. This is discussed here (search for “identity”): https://developer.apple.com/app-store/app-privacy-details/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/app-privacy-details/ In contrast, when you provide Facebook an email address, they will explicitly pay a lot of databases to cross-reference your email address and tell Facebook your identity, your salary, and so on.

blindm 6y ago

This is so late to the game. I've been inspecting the traffic of iOS apps for a long time now, and have written to the developers asking them to remove these tracking beacons / analytics scripts. I created a wireless hotspot in Linux, connected my iDevice to it, and then opened Wireshark and was able to see all the traffic of the iDevice. I would encourage everyone to inspect the traffic of apps to gauge their privacy score.

ekanes 6y ago
Thanks. It could be useful since you might have more technical ability than many to say a bit more about what you found, if you're willing. Cheers!
bfgoodrich 6y ago
Late to the game? Who is Apple behind? Is this a "finally" kind of thing?
gruez 6y ago
A mass market solution is "late to the game" because some hobbyist can do it himself with lots of time and expertise? This sounds like the infamous "who needs dropbox when you can just do it yourself using FTP + curlftpfs + SVN/CVS?" comment on HN.
sneak 6y ago
Apple expressly permits all of that tracking in the apps in the App Store. They could ban they behavior, but they don't. They could sherlock Little Snitch or make an outbound network connection permission for apps, but they don't. They could surface the data an app is transmitting, or the hosts to which it connects, but they don't.

emptyparadise 6y ago

I hope this makes a strong impact. Invasive tracking is a menace.

nvrGiveUp 6y ago
App makers should not be allowed to collect data. Only Apple should be allowed to. And Apple should be opaque about it while running contradictory advertising about privacy and security. Btw is it gaslighting when Apple claims privacy but gives your information away to organizations like the US and Chinese government?
- dathos 6y ago
  Nowhere does this change disallow app makers from collecting data, they just need to be transparant about it. Apple should be held to their own standards just as much. To your second point, which big company nowadays doesn't? Not saying that it's a thing we should accept but why bring it up here? Also, pleas don't use gaslighting when you mean marketing, imo it takes away from the severity of gaslighting.
- tannedNerd 6y ago
  This is absolutely a position taken by someone who has never had to fix a bug on an apple device using only apple tools. Not being able to use instabug or crashalytics will put you behind other apps because only 20-30% of users enable bug reporting. You will miss crashes and bugs if you just use apple. Source: 10 years of building ios apps for FB, LI, etc
- babypuncher 6y ago
  Apple doesn't have much choice when it comes to governments. They have resisted data collection efforts where they have legal ground to do so. If you want them to stop handing anything over to your government, you need to fix that with legislation.
- emptyparadise 6y ago
  Apple shouldn't be allowed to collect data either.

ecmascript 6y ago

Will this apply to their own apps as well?

CubsFan1060 6y ago
Yes. Their apps that you can download from the app store will have it. The ones that are always on the phone will have the information on the website. See here: https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/9/22165959/apple-privacy-nutrition-labels-all-apps-preinstalled-messages-web https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/9/22165959/apple-privacy-nu... Edit: a quick look at "pages" in the mac app store shows that the privacy label is there.
- bilal4hmed 6y ago
  Dont see anything for iMessage. If its supposed to be on the privacy page, then that is nowhere like what they are asking devs on the store.
  - shuckles 6y ago
    The first party apps not on App Store seem to have them linked through here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211970 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211970
  - zerointerupt 6y ago
    https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT211975 https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT211975

asplake 6y ago

Will the app store listing for my Sudoku game warn me (as to its credit my iPhone started doing, before I deleted the app in horror) that it pastes from the clipboard on startup?

CodesInChaos 6y ago
From what I remember, the old clipboard API didn't distinguish between an app inspecting the clipboard content (dangerous) and merely checking if the clipboard contains data and what its type is (harmless).
- shuckles 6y ago
  Accessing pasteboard metadata doesn’t trigger the pill, though.
  - CodesInChaos 6y ago
    The way I understood it, many only apps triggered it because either the old API didn't offer a separate meta data access function, or they didn't know that they should use it.
    - shuckles 6y ago
      The types API has been available since iOS 3.0 which, IIRC, was when pasteboard was added to the system. Certainly there are apps which accessed the contents of pasteboard more than they should have because they weren't being punished for it.
Razengan 6y ago
A bunch of major apps like Discord do/did that too. WhatsApp also occasionally tries/tried to access photos for no reason, which I caught thanks to iOS 14's "Would you like to give this app access to more photos?" prompt. Then there's Instagram: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/07/25/instagram-unexpectedly-accessing-camera/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/07/25/instagram-unexpectedly-... It was iOS that outed them and not Android. This is why I prefer Apple to the other major corps; they're still the lesser evil among the sea of villainy out there.

ballenf 6y ago

The labels right now are just too pretty. They're also so far down on the app listing, that I doubt they'll be seen by much of anyone. Hopefully these issues are just v1 and down the road the privacy screen will more prominent and maybe less blah blah blah looking. Or maybe there'll be filtering options in the App Store: "hide apps that correlate offline user data", e.g.

coldpie 6y ago
A filter option would be great, yeah. Just eliminate a whole class of garbage apps.
spideymans 6y ago
I’d suggest that the privacy screen should be shown on app launch in iOS 15. Apple already does a similar privacy splash screen on launch of their own apps

ir77 6y ago

checked it out today when i saw this article. just recently got an apple watch and has been using for health tracking and was very pleased to see that two of my fav apps: + Work outdoors + Heart Analyzier collect absolutely no data, everything stays on my watch. considering the plethora of personal information that something like garmin, strava or suunto collect, this is incredible, more people shoudl be cognizant of this.

tomcatfish 6y ago
Defense of Garmin: I recently got a smartwatch from them and can use it entirely offline, so they do not necessarily collect that much information.

sneak 6y ago

Apple's labeling efforts do not appear to be requiring that apps that see/log a user's IP address disclose their collection of user location. That seems like an oversight to me. IP addresses are coarse user location data.

sneak 6y ago

It's impossible to download free apps on iOS (via the App Store) without giving Apple an email address, phone number, and street address. Additionally, opening the App Store app on iOS sends your IP (coarse location) and device serial number to Apple. Logging in to download associates that serial with your email, street address, and phone number. Every iOS device, and now every mac, connects to the Apple push server with a certificate tied to its serial number, and of course sends the client IP (and thus coarse device location). Apple has your travel history, and the travel history of every iOS device by serial number. As of Big Sur, they have it for each and every mac, too. On the mac, you can't install a VPN app without providing your identification to Apple, because the NetworkExtension app entitlements to do that are only given out for App Store apps. This is why windows users can download wireguard from the wireguard website, but mac users cannot. App Store only! I am not really that convinced that Apple cares that much about protecting consumer privacy.

darkwizard42 6y ago
Apple having that information doesn't mean they don't care about protecting consumer privacy...they still have to KYC (Know Your Customer). The reason you can trust Apple (for now) about protecting consumer privacy is that they aren't selling it to unknown third-parties make MORE money off of you. If Apple has your data its going to ONLY be used by Apple and only in ways you understand (at least that's the marketing push)
- sneak 6y ago
  > they still have to KYC (Know Your Customer). This is false. KYC regulations do not apply to app stores, only banking and financial services: regulated industries. Furthermore, nothing requires Apple restrict App Store downloads of free apps to logged in/registered users only. This is a hoop they make people jump through so that there is less friction at time of purchase of a paid app or (more importantly) a "free" app's IAP. It's a signupwall hustle. > The reason you can trust Apple (for now) about protecting consumer privacy is that they aren't selling it to unknown third-parties make MORE money off of you. Apple sent the data of over 30,000 users to the US government last year without a warrant or probable cause, per Apple's own transparency report (look under the FISA orders category—this is the stuff that Ed Snowden disclosed under the internal/classified codename PRISM). Data brokers can't cause federal prosecutors to harass me because I said something they didn't like. The federal government can.

humblepie 6y ago

It would be nice if I can filter apps based on these labels while browsing the App Store. Or even determine which of my existing apps fall under which label(s).

s3r3nity 6y ago
I’m sure this is one of those things that’s on the launch roadmap once you can get developers to actually adopt the badge. Then once there’s a critical mass there’ll be a combination of manual filters and/or automated ranking (ex: if my kid is in the App Store, they only see privacy-friendly apps.)

jws 6y ago

As a developer, if you do not collect information, compliance is trivial. Go to AppStoreConnect for your App, see "App Privacy" on the sidebar, "get started", tell it you don't collect data. And you are done. Edit: Doh! And also notice the blue "Publish" button in the upper right. Press that and get threatened. Then your data is ready. Otherwise when you go to push your update it will tell you to go fill in the App Privacy data. The next time you upload you will have a label.

s3cur3 6y ago
Proud developer of a "Data Not Collected" app here. Makes writing a privacy policy simple! :D https://www.unboundapp.com/privacy-policy.html https://www.unboundapp.com/privacy-policy.html
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  Your app shares a lot of data with a third party, however, including payment and usage information.
  - s3cur3 6y ago
    Nnnnnope. If you opt to purchase it via the Mac App Store, that's between you & Apple—it happens entirely apart from the app.
    - lern_too_spel 6y ago
      If there is no other way to get the app, the end user loss in privacy is exactly the same.
      - s3cur3 6y ago
        If someone would like to arrange a back-alley cash deal, I'm happy to provide a binary on a CD-ROM. But if I'm accepting money over the internet, a third party is necessarily going to be involved, because I'm not a bank and I can't process payments myself. It's kind of a bizarre criticism to say that Mac software is sold via the Mac App Store...

wayneftw 6y ago

I wish I could search by: - Price. -Has ads? - User Ratings. - In-app purchases. Does anyone know if there is a search engine that will let me discover apps this way? Like this, but for iOS - https://playsearch.kaki87.net/ https://playsearch.kaki87.net/

sneak 6y ago
It's in Apple's financial interest to have people install more apps with IAPs, as Apple currently charges their captive audience 10x the market rate for payment processing inside of apps and makes a lot of money from these purchases. I wouldn't hold my breath for Apple to develop a filter that lets you find only non-IAP apps.
- thewebcount 6y ago
  They made a whole service (Apple Arcade) just to allow users to avoid in-app purchases, ads, and tracking in games. Oh, and loot boxes, too, probably. I don't think they're above letting users do that sort of filtering.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Apple gets subscription money out of that, of course…
- wayneftw 6y ago
  Seems like a like a good opportunity for a third party solution.
  - mthoms 6y ago
    I wonder how this could be monetized though? Apple dropped their affiliate program for the App store quite a while back.
    - wayneftw 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

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mikece 6y ago

This is LONG overdue and I hope it at least shows users as much info per app as Google Play does where you can inspect the permissions the app requests/requires (though the distinction between request and require would be nice). It would also be nice to have persistent search filters in the app store search like "don't show me any apps which request access to my contacts or location"... though I suspect it will take people dying because their stalkers found them through an app's location info for this to happen.

sonotmyname 6y ago
> This is LONG overdue and I hope it at least shows users as much info per app as Google Play does where you can inspect the permissions the app requests/requires This is not that feature at all - iOS has had the ability to show/control permissions since they have had permissions, and an app cannot require unrelated permissions to function. This is about data that is collected, and how it's used - not app permissions.

makecheck 6y ago

These lists are a little “cookie warning” style and might be easily ignored. I would like to see a mode in the phone itself where I can see a filtered list of apps based on features I opt in to. Examples: - “Show all apps that collect no data”: <<90% of my Home Screen icons fade out>> - If you’re currently logged in to some account, a mode that shows you which apps “know” that you’re using this account. I think a visual approach would make it clearer to users what features of their phone are applicable in each situation.

herf 6y ago

Looks like they treat "opt in" data collection the same way they treat silent collection that's turned on by default? This seems like a bad incentive, because there should be a benefit to being careful about opt-in.

shuckles 6y ago
By law, all data collection must be opt-in, but that’s usually accomplished through privacy notices that nobody reads. I presume they had to deal with some complexity here as a result. The questionnaire is ambiguous enough as it is.

aasasd 6y ago

Where did they live before?

s3cur3 6y ago
Theoretically in the developer's privacy policy. In practice, nowhere.
tnorthcutt 6y ago
They didn't; the title means "these are now live (present) on the app store", as opposed to "these now live on the app store, instead of the place they were living before"

makecheck 6y ago

They definitely need a special case for “no data collected”. It should say something very direct like “This app does NOT collect any data.”. Instead, the App Store listing includes this extremely awkward set of phrases: “The developer, $DEVELOPER has indicated that the app’s privacy practices may include handling of data as described below: Data Not Collected The developer does not collect any data from this app.”

barkerja 6y ago
They do, actually. If you look up the Halide camera app, you'll see a great example of this.
- TheNewAndy 6y ago
  I think the original poster has seen an example of this, and they think apple could go further. I certainly was surprised to see the sentence: "Privacy practices may vary, for example, based on the features you use or your age." I filled in the questions in app store connect recently, and since it is just a simple game without anything remotely privacy invading, I happily answered all the questions in the most "privacy respecting" way. To then see this sentence hinting that the privacy stuff might be different if people use unspecified features, or be particular ages... that is certainly a surprise.
  - barkerja 6y ago
    It does say that, but it's also a very clear and bold "Data Not Collected" See screenshot: https://share.barkerja.dev/4vgEhw.jpeg https://share.barkerja.dev/4vgEhw.jpeg
    - makecheck 6y ago
      My issue is the whole “privacy practices may include handling of data as described below”, which on first read always sounds like “great, this app is handling my data for some reason”, only to be followed by “no data collected”. It’s pointlessly verbose to get that point across.

Klonoar 6y ago

One thing I'm confused by with this: an APNS token is, technically, a device identifier... so should every app that uses push notifications be electing under Device ID? If so, I would _really_ appreciate it if there was some language stating "for push notifications only" or something, because as it sounds right now it comes across like something else.

ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
Every app gets its own APNs token. Developers cannot collude to track people with them.

tmsh 6y ago

Need to upgrade to iOS 14.3 to see them.

zeropointone 6y ago

That's a nice start for Apple. But for now it indeed looks like a cookie request on any website nowadays. The real question is whether Apple is going to verify the information provided by the app developers. Will Apple do some kind of information flow control (IFC) through taint tracking on the app code, to make sure that the user name or location is not collected as the app description says?

rsync 6y ago

What about app permissions ? I frequently want to see, before installing, what permissions an iOS app requires, or will at least attempt to use. AFAICT this information is not available anywhere in the app store even though it is known and could easily be listed. Has that changed ?

gigatexal 6y ago

Yep. I love this. If it encourages devs to think twice about incorporating some library from Facebook just for easy login or something then I’ll be happy. In fact I’m going to be looking at these labels and making buying/subscribing decisions from them.