4 ms·

PinePhone, Libre phone to name two. I’m guessing there are some android ROMs that could do this as well but not positive

user-the-name 6y ago
What specific steps do they take to stop tracking?
- fsflover 6y ago
  https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#11-why-buy-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
  - user-the-name 6y ago
    I don't even see the issue of preventing third-party apps from tracking you addressed on that page, and that is exactly my worry with these kinds of projects: It is not clear to me that they even know what the threat model is. They do not seem to focus at all on the largest issues facing modern phone app ecosystems.
    - fsflover 6y ago
      The threat model is the same as in GNU/Linux desktop I would say. It's probably less secure than Android (ignoring its proprietary bits), but is' improving.
      - user-the-name 6y ago
        Generally, Android is worse for privacy than iOS, and this is worse than Android. So if one follows your advice to use this instead of iOS, you give up a LOT of privacy protection. That does not seem like good advice to me.
        fsflover 6y ago
        Concerning privacy, it's the opposite. Android sells all your data, so there is just no privacy there at all. iOS sends at least some data to Apple, so it's better but far from perfect. GNU/Linux collects no data, so it's as good privacy as you can get. It's different in terms of security, but for most people security of GNU/Linux is sufficient given it's all FLOSS. See also: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#43-how-secure-is-the-librem-5-compared-to-an-android-phone https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
        user-the-name 6y ago
        By far the biggest exposure you have is NOT from your OS, it is from third-party apps running on it. That is the real risk, and that is the gigantic blind spot open source projects like this have. They are just not addressing the real problem at all, and they are doing nothing whatsoever to protect you from the real risk.
        fsflover 6y ago
        What you say is true, but in PureOS you only have FLOSS apps in the app store, which hardly will spy on you. If you install spying apps, this is a different problem, not yet solved apart from virtualization. Also, when the OS spies on you, it's definitely a problem.
        user-the-name 6y ago
        Putting aside the fact that simply being open source does not ensure anyone actually audits the source (in fact, most open source is largely unaudited by anyone but the developers themselves), of course limiting yourself to using only a tiny amount of software can make you more safe. But that is not really a reasonable solution to anything. Going down that route, you might as well not use a phone or a computer at all, and be perfectly protected. People WANT to use software, and the software they want to use will never be available as pure, audited FLOSS. Instead, we need to have ways to let user use software from less trusted sources while still working hard to protect them from it. Apple does this. They put in tons of effort to give you a way to run untrusted software while retaining some amount of trust that it can't go too far in endangering you. I find it massively frustrating that these FLOSS projects will not do the same. They will just not even try to protect you.
fsflover 6y ago
> Libre phone Librem 5 phone: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 Pinephone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

user-the-name 6y ago

What specific steps do they take to stop tracking?

fsflover 6y ago
https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#11-why-buy-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
- user-the-name 6y ago
  I don't even see the issue of preventing third-party apps from tracking you addressed on that page, and that is exactly my worry with these kinds of projects: It is not clear to me that they even know what the threat model is. They do not seem to focus at all on the largest issues facing modern phone app ecosystems.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    The threat model is the same as in GNU/Linux desktop I would say. It's probably less secure than Android (ignoring its proprietary bits), but is' improving.
    - user-the-name 6y ago
      Generally, Android is worse for privacy than iOS, and this is worse than Android. So if one follows your advice to use this instead of iOS, you give up a LOT of privacy protection. That does not seem like good advice to me.
      - fsflover 6y ago
        Concerning privacy, it's the opposite. Android sells all your data, so there is just no privacy there at all. iOS sends at least some data to Apple, so it's better but far from perfect. GNU/Linux collects no data, so it's as good privacy as you can get. It's different in terms of security, but for most people security of GNU/Linux is sufficient given it's all FLOSS. See also: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#43-how-secure-is-the-librem-5-compared-to-an-android-phone https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
        user-the-name 6y ago
        By far the biggest exposure you have is NOT from your OS, it is from third-party apps running on it. That is the real risk, and that is the gigantic blind spot open source projects like this have. They are just not addressing the real problem at all, and they are doing nothing whatsoever to protect you from the real risk.
        fsflover 6y ago
        What you say is true, but in PureOS you only have FLOSS apps in the app store, which hardly will spy on you. If you install spying apps, this is a different problem, not yet solved apart from virtualization. Also, when the OS spies on you, it's definitely a problem.
        user-the-name 6y ago
        Putting aside the fact that simply being open source does not ensure anyone actually audits the source (in fact, most open source is largely unaudited by anyone but the developers themselves), of course limiting yourself to using only a tiny amount of software can make you more safe. But that is not really a reasonable solution to anything. Going down that route, you might as well not use a phone or a computer at all, and be perfectly protected. People WANT to use software, and the software they want to use will never be available as pure, audited FLOSS. Instead, we need to have ways to let user use software from less trusted sources while still working hard to protect them from it. Apple does this. They put in tons of effort to give you a way to run untrusted software while retaining some amount of trust that it can't go too far in endangering you. I find it massively frustrating that these FLOSS projects will not do the same. They will just not even try to protect you.

fsflover 6y ago

> Libre phone Librem 5 phone: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 Pinephone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/