5 ms·

Support Free software instead, and stop begging Apple for permission to control what happens on hardware you own.

by encom 6y ago

user-the-name 6y ago
What free software phones are there that actually take steps to prevent tracking? Most free software OSes I know about generally give apps lots of access to the system they are running on, which makes tracking a lot easier.
- auslegung 6y ago
  PinePhone, Libre phone to name two. I’m guessing there are some android ROMs that could do this as well but not positive
  - user-the-name 6y ago
    What specific steps do they take to stop tracking?
    - fsflover 6y ago
      https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#11-why-buy-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
      - user-the-name 6y ago
        I don't even see the issue of preventing third-party apps from tracking you addressed on that page, and that is exactly my worry with these kinds of projects: It is not clear to me that they even know what the threat model is. They do not seem to focus at all on the largest issues facing modern phone app ecosystems.
        fsflover 6y ago
        The threat model is the same as in GNU/Linux desktop I would say. It's probably less secure than Android (ignoring its proprietary bits), but is' improving.
        user-the-name 6y ago
        Generally, Android is worse for privacy than iOS, and this is worse than Android. So if one follows your advice to use this instead of iOS, you give up a LOT of privacy protection. That does not seem like good advice to me.
        fsflover 6y ago
        Concerning privacy, it's the opposite. Android sells all your data, so there is just no privacy there at all. iOS sends at least some data to Apple, so it's better but far from perfect. GNU/Linux collects no data, so it's as good privacy as you can get. It's different in terms of security, but for most people security of GNU/Linux is sufficient given it's all FLOSS. See also: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#43-how-secure-is-the-librem-5-compared-to-an-android-phone https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
        user-the-name 6y ago
        By far the biggest exposure you have is NOT from your OS, it is from third-party apps running on it. That is the real risk, and that is the gigantic blind spot open source projects like this have. They are just not addressing the real problem at all, and they are doing nothing whatsoever to protect you from the real risk.
        fsflover 6y ago
        What you say is true, but in PureOS you only have FLOSS apps in the app store, which hardly will spy on you. If you install spying apps, this is a different problem, not yet solved apart from virtualization. Also, when the OS spies on you, it's definitely a problem.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    > Libre phone Librem 5 phone: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 Pinephone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
coldtea 6y ago
I don't want to own hardware and OS I don't like, even if I can control it fully. I'd rather have hardware and OS I like, even if I can't control some aspects of it. Of course a hardware/OS I like and which I control fully would be the holy grail (if the tradeoffs involved, e.g. it being FOSS, and thus underfunded for example, allowed for such a thing). Absent that, somewhere in between there is a nice balance for each person/business case.
- rimliu 6y ago
  This reasoning is just funny. You put your servers on the cloud because you do not want to be bothered with owning and maintaining them and next day you tell people to own and control their devices. Guess what, many have more interesting stuff to do than tracking updates and tweaking configs.

Support Free software instead, and stop begging Apple for permission to control what happens on hardware you own.

by encom 6y ago

Support Free software instead, and stop begging Apple for permission to control what happens on hardware you own.

What free software phones are there that actually take steps to prevent tracking? Most free software OSes I know about generally give apps lots of access to the system they are running on, which makes tracking a lot easier.

auslegung 6y ago
PinePhone, Libre phone to name two. I’m guessing there are some android ROMs that could do this as well but not positive
- user-the-name 6y ago
  What specific steps do they take to stop tracking?
  - fsflover 6y ago
    https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#11-why-buy-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
    - user-the-name 6y ago
      I don't even see the issue of preventing third-party apps from tracking you addressed on that page, and that is exactly my worry with these kinds of projects: It is not clear to me that they even know what the threat model is. They do not seem to focus at all on the largest issues facing modern phone app ecosystems.
      - fsflover 6y ago
        The threat model is the same as in GNU/Linux desktop I would say. It's probably less secure than Android (ignoring its proprietary bits), but is' improving.
        user-the-name 6y ago
        Generally, Android is worse for privacy than iOS, and this is worse than Android. So if one follows your advice to use this instead of iOS, you give up a LOT of privacy protection. That does not seem like good advice to me.
        fsflover 6y ago
        Concerning privacy, it's the opposite. Android sells all your data, so there is just no privacy there at all. iOS sends at least some data to Apple, so it's better but far from perfect. GNU/Linux collects no data, so it's as good privacy as you can get. It's different in terms of security, but for most people security of GNU/Linux is sufficient given it's all FLOSS. See also: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#43-how-secure-is-the-librem-5-compared-to-an-android-phone https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
        user-the-name 6y ago
        By far the biggest exposure you have is NOT from your OS, it is from third-party apps running on it. That is the real risk, and that is the gigantic blind spot open source projects like this have. They are just not addressing the real problem at all, and they are doing nothing whatsoever to protect you from the real risk.
        fsflover 6y ago
        What you say is true, but in PureOS you only have FLOSS apps in the app store, which hardly will spy on you. If you install spying apps, this is a different problem, not yet solved apart from virtualization. Also, when the OS spies on you, it's definitely a problem.
- fsflover 6y ago
  > Libre phone Librem 5 phone: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 Pinephone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

coldtea 6y ago

I don't want to own hardware and OS I don't like, even if I can control it fully. I'd rather have hardware and OS I like, even if I can't control some aspects of it. Of course a hardware/OS I like and which I control fully would be the holy grail (if the tradeoffs involved, e.g. it being FOSS, and thus underfunded for example, allowed for such a thing). Absent that, somewhere in between there is a nice balance for each person/business case.

rimliu 6y ago
This reasoning is just funny. You put your servers on the cloud because you do not want to be bothered with owning and maintaining them and next day you tell people to own and control their devices. Guess what, many have more interesting stuff to do than tracking updates and tweaking configs.