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Yeah Access was the closest think I could think of. But for what I'm picturing, that's too complicated - I don't want the end-user to see or think about the da

by lss456 15y ago

Yeah Access was the closest think I could think of. But for what I'm picturing, that's too complicated - I don't want the end-user to see or think about the database at all. The end-user should basically drop and drag things, then click a button that says "create application" and it spits out your app.

mechanical_fish 15y ago
The name for the activity you describe is programming. Just because you've not typing lines of code doesn't mean you're not programming. Meanwhile, you need to think about why people like spreadsheets. Yes, they show you all your data on a big stupid sheet and force you to look at it, but that's a feature, not a bug. People don't collect data because pressing buttons is fun. They want to see their data again. Indeed, not being able to relocate their hard-won data is their worst nightmare, so it is reassuring to see it right there and know that you can find it. It's easy to find data in a spreadsheet: Just scroll around until you see it. It's got to be right there on the page: It's a spreadsheet. Even a nonprogrammer can navigate a simple spreadsheet. It's even easy to change the data. You see a number you don't like, you type over it. If you want something with better organization or navigation than a simple spreadsheet, you'll need, at the very least: Forms to type the data in, and reports to get the data out. But presumably your forms will need carefully-chosen field types, and validation against app-specific criteria, and maybe even record-to-record relations, or why wouldn't you just use a spreadsheet? And the reports will have to be fancier than just a big table, or why wouldn't you just use a spreadsheet? And when you design these forms and records and relations and reports... you'll be programming.
- lss456 15y ago
  The reason I would not choose a spreadsheet for this idea is for a cleaner layout. I think a basic form with boxes and labels, where the other data is hidden, would be more user-friendly. A spreadsheet has data all over, and that can be distracting to see and navigate around - for me, anyway. That's my preference.
  - Mz 15y ago
    Lots of spreadsheets are eye-bleedingly bad. It doesn't have to be that way. Some principles I use when trying to improve hideous spreadsheets: 1) The main body of the data should fit on one page. In many cases, it can be made to fit, you just need to reorganize some of it and tweak sizes of boxes, use some reasonable abbreviations, etc. 2) Try to keep it to 7 colors (though this rule can be bent a smidgeon by going one shade darker for emphasis without really introducing a totally new color). 3) "Whiting out" (though beige, gray or taupe can be better choices than white) the background boxes can go a long way towards making a spreadsheet less torturous to look at. 4) Going one font size up and adding bolding can be plenty of emphasis. You really don't need anything of size 72 lettering just because it's a title or some such. (I'm sure you don't personally care. And I'm not trying to change your mind. Maybe I just needed to say it for myself.)

by lss456 15y ago

mechanical_fish 15y ago

The name for the activity you describe is programming. Just because you've not typing lines of code doesn't mean you're not programming. Meanwhile, you need to think about why people like spreadsheets. Yes, they show you all your data on a big stupid sheet and force you to look at it, but that's a feature, not a bug. People don't collect data because pressing buttons is fun. They want to see their data again. Indeed, not being able to relocate their hard-won data is their worst nightmare, so it is reassuring to see it right there and know that you can find it. It's easy to find data in a spreadsheet: Just scroll around until you see it. It's got to be right there on the page: It's a spreadsheet. Even a nonprogrammer can navigate a simple spreadsheet. It's even easy to change the data. You see a number you don't like, you type over it. If you want something with better organization or navigation than a simple spreadsheet, you'll need, at the very least: Forms to type the data in, and reports to get the data out. But presumably your forms will need carefully-chosen field types, and validation against app-specific criteria, and maybe even record-to-record relations, or why wouldn't you just use a spreadsheet? And the reports will have to be fancier than just a big table, or why wouldn't you just use a spreadsheet? And when you design these forms and records and relations and reports... you'll be programming.

lss456 15y ago
The reason I would not choose a spreadsheet for this idea is for a cleaner layout. I think a basic form with boxes and labels, where the other data is hidden, would be more user-friendly. A spreadsheet has data all over, and that can be distracting to see and navigate around - for me, anyway. That's my preference.
- Mz 15y ago
  Lots of spreadsheets are eye-bleedingly bad. It doesn't have to be that way. Some principles I use when trying to improve hideous spreadsheets: 1) The main body of the data should fit on one page. In many cases, it can be made to fit, you just need to reorganize some of it and tweak sizes of boxes, use some reasonable abbreviations, etc. 2) Try to keep it to 7 colors (though this rule can be bent a smidgeon by going one shade darker for emphasis without really introducing a totally new color). 3) "Whiting out" (though beige, gray or taupe can be better choices than white) the background boxes can go a long way towards making a spreadsheet less torturous to look at. 4) Going one font size up and adding bolding can be plenty of emphasis. You really don't need anything of size 72 lettering just because it's a title or some such. (I'm sure you don't personally care. And I'm not trying to change your mind. Maybe I just needed to say it for myself.)