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> Group calls are currently limited to 5 participants Compared to other apps which offer group E2EE video calls: Duo - 32 participants Facetime - 32 particip

> Group calls are currently limited to 5 participants Compared to other apps which offer group E2EE video calls: Duo - 32 participants Facetime - 32 participants Zoom - 100 participants (or 1000 w/ a Large Meeting License)

ffpip 6y ago
Duo started with up to 4 participants back in 2019. Facetime is apple only. Zoom is not even end to end encrypted (edit: now), and was built for businesses, and apps are close to malware installers
- Ansil849 6y ago
  > Zoom is not even end to end encrypted https://blog.zoom.us/zoom-rolling-out-end-to-end-encryption-offering/ https://blog.zoom.us/zoom-rolling-out-end-to-end-encryption-...
  - ffpip 6y ago
    It's not by default, and still hasn't rolled out here.
    - hiq 6y ago
      And I don't want to diminish the skills of Zoom engineers, but when Google and Facebook (WA) can't offer more than 32 / 8, which tradeoff is Zoom doing to be able to offer E2EE calls with 1000 people? I don't think my phone would be able to receive 1000 different video streams simultaneously for instance.
      - ffpip 6y ago
        If Google offered more with Duo, people would use it for events. Then people wouldn't use Google meet when they go to work. Meet is part of Gsuite.
- dastx 6y ago
  > apps are close to malware installers I'm probably out of the loop, do you mind expanding on this?
  - oarsinsync 6y ago
    First hit on DDG for “Zoom Mac malware”: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/2/21204648/zoom-macos-installer-update-privacy-security-concerns https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/2/21204648/zoom-macos-instal...
  - zaroth 6y ago
    IMO this was part of a misinformation campaign against Zoom from several months back. Zoom is not malware and never was malware, although Zoom did so some installer tricks to help computer illiterate users get into meeting more quickly, which coincidentally is their entire value-add. Note I own no shares in Zoom, do not and never have worked for Zoom, and have no financial interest in Zoom.
    - ffpip 6y ago
      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/02/zoom-technology-security-coronavirus-video-conferencing https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/02/zoom-tech... https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/2/21204648/zoom-macos-installer-update-privacy-security-concerns https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/2/21204648/zoom-macos-instal... > Zoom is not malware and never was malware I have never said that. I said that installers are close to malware. > which coincidentally is their entire value-add. Yes. This also enabled full camera and mic access without user interaction. Entire value-add. https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/8/20687014/zoom-security-flaw-video-conference-websites-hijack-mac-cameras https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/8/20687014/zoom-security-fla... https://twitter.com/mathowie/status/1148393069667991552 https://twitter.com/mathowie/status/1148393069667991552
    - akvadrako 6y ago
      That's hogwash – Zoom is more difficult to get working for computer newbies than say Jitsi, which doesn't need any weird installer tricks.
captn3m0 6y ago
WhatsApp - 8. Signal will catch up soon.
dancemethis 6y ago
...You believe them?
pthatcherg 6y ago
I work at Signal on group calls. We're being careful with rollout. The limit will hopefully be increased soon.
- drummer 6y ago
  Hi do you know when legacy groups will be converted? Would love to use the new features but I have legacy groups with lots of history I want to keep.
  - godelski 6y ago
    I think they got updated in the latest update. At least for me they did. So if yours haven't, then soon? You need everyone in the group to update.
  - climb_stealth 6y ago
    This is copied from the latest Android beta changelist. For what it's worth one of my groups has been converted so it seems to be happening. > Your Legacy Signal Groups will be automatically upgraded to New Groups so they can get in on the new features we recently released, like admins, @mentions, group links, and more. Upgrades don’t happen all at once or instantly, and some groups may not upgrade for a while.
  - greysonp 6y ago
    Hi, Signal employee here. The latest builds of all of our clients support upgrading. You just need to make sure everyone in the group is on the latest clients, including their linked desktops. In the future, we'll add the ability to force a migration for scenarios where some group members are inactive.

ffpip 6y ago

Duo started with up to 4 participants back in 2019. Facetime is apple only. Zoom is not even end to end encrypted (edit: now), and was built for businesses, and apps are close to malware installers

Ansil849 6y ago
> Zoom is not even end to end encrypted https://blog.zoom.us/zoom-rolling-out-end-to-end-encryption-offering/ https://blog.zoom.us/zoom-rolling-out-end-to-end-encryption-...
- ffpip 6y ago
  It's not by default, and still hasn't rolled out here.
  - hiq 6y ago
    And I don't want to diminish the skills of Zoom engineers, but when Google and Facebook (WA) can't offer more than 32 / 8, which tradeoff is Zoom doing to be able to offer E2EE calls with 1000 people? I don't think my phone would be able to receive 1000 different video streams simultaneously for instance.
    - ffpip 6y ago
      If Google offered more with Duo, people would use it for events. Then people wouldn't use Google meet when they go to work. Meet is part of Gsuite.
dastx 6y ago
> apps are close to malware installers I'm probably out of the loop, do you mind expanding on this?
- oarsinsync 6y ago
  First hit on DDG for “Zoom Mac malware”: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/2/21204648/zoom-macos-installer-update-privacy-security-concerns https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/2/21204648/zoom-macos-instal...
- zaroth 6y ago
  IMO this was part of a misinformation campaign against Zoom from several months back. Zoom is not malware and never was malware, although Zoom did so some installer tricks to help computer illiterate users get into meeting more quickly, which coincidentally is their entire value-add. Note I own no shares in Zoom, do not and never have worked for Zoom, and have no financial interest in Zoom.
  - ffpip 6y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/02/zoom-technology-security-coronavirus-video-conferencing https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/02/zoom-tech... https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/2/21204648/zoom-macos-installer-update-privacy-security-concerns https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/2/21204648/zoom-macos-instal... > Zoom is not malware and never was malware I have never said that. I said that installers are close to malware. > which coincidentally is their entire value-add. Yes. This also enabled full camera and mic access without user interaction. Entire value-add. https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/8/20687014/zoom-security-flaw-video-conference-websites-hijack-mac-cameras https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/8/20687014/zoom-security-fla... https://twitter.com/mathowie/status/1148393069667991552 https://twitter.com/mathowie/status/1148393069667991552
  - akvadrako 6y ago
    That's hogwash – Zoom is more difficult to get working for computer newbies than say Jitsi, which doesn't need any weird installer tricks.

captn3m0 6y ago

WhatsApp - 8. Signal will catch up soon.

dancemethis 6y ago

...You believe them?

pthatcherg 6y ago

I work at Signal on group calls. We're being careful with rollout. The limit will hopefully be increased soon.

drummer 6y ago
Hi do you know when legacy groups will be converted? Would love to use the new features but I have legacy groups with lots of history I want to keep.
- godelski 6y ago
  I think they got updated in the latest update. At least for me they did. So if yours haven't, then soon? You need everyone in the group to update.
- climb_stealth 6y ago
  This is copied from the latest Android beta changelist. For what it's worth one of my groups has been converted so it seems to be happening. > Your Legacy Signal Groups will be automatically upgraded to New Groups so they can get in on the new features we recently released, like admins, @mentions, group links, and more. Upgrades don’t happen all at once or instantly, and some groups may not upgrade for a while.
- greysonp 6y ago
  Hi, Signal employee here. The latest builds of all of our clients support upgrading. You just need to make sure everyone in the group is on the latest clients, including their linked desktops. In the future, we'll add the ability to force a migration for scenarios where some group members are inactive.