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I'm pretty disappointed with the way this has unfolded. For those now familiar with ReScript, ReScript started as "reason" an alternative syntax for Ocaml. Rec

I'm pretty disappointed with the way this has unfolded. For those now familiar with ReScript, ReScript started as "reason" an alternative syntax for Ocaml. Recently ReScript was created with a sytnax more similar to TypeScript than "Reason". In addition, there is a fork of OCaml for compiling to javascript that used to be branded as "Bucklescript", but now it is called "ReScript" as well. So now as of 12/14/2020 there are three Ocaml syntax versions in use: Ocaml, Reason (Reason 3.6, last version available for native code) ReScript, (~Reason 4, only available for javascript compiler fork, some sytax present in Ocaml/Reason has actually been removed with no equivilant in the grammar) I am not sure who benefits from this, Ocaml is a serious language that will never be as simple as a dynamically typed language. I am not sure who this is supposed to be helping. It seems to me that things were more clear a year ago when there were just two syntaxes available. In addition, it now takes a relative subject matter expert to disipher what is going on, which i think is the exact outcome ReScript was trying to avoid.

giantDinosaur 6y ago
I'm rather confused: what is ReasonML ? is ReasonML now ReScript, or is it still its own thing? A quick google suggests ReasonML is for targeting native platforms? But I used it for the web at one point? Anyway, there was already a problem with like three different standard libraries (which had super annoying differences like swapping parameter orders, presumably in an attempt to be friendlier etc.) or something when I first messed around with ReasonML (Bucklescript? Whatever the Facebook one was in 2019? I dunno.) and I hope this isn't also increasing that problem ?
- ezrast 6y ago
  ReasonML is merely an "alternate syntax" to OCaml, meaning it's a separate language that parses to the same AST. Traditionally it's been used along with Bucklescript, an OCaml-to-Javascript compiler developed by the same people, to do web work, but it's well-supported in the native OCaml compiler ecosystem as well. Now that ReScript has superseded ReasonML+Bucklescript, the only niche remaining for non-legacy ReasonML is native development work by folks who just don't like the normal OCaml syntax, or want to target both runtimes with the same code. Basically, the permutations are like this, with "ReScript (backend)" referring to the thing formerly known as BuckleScript: OCaml/native: What normal people think of when they hear "OCaml". ReasonML/native: Uncommon, but supported for folks who've bought into the Reason syntax. ReScript (frontend)/native: Nobody does this since ReScript is strictly worse than ReasonML when targeting native. I don't even know if it's possible. OCaml/ReScript (backend): Should be possible, but nobody does this. ReasonML/ReScript (backend): Sort-of-deprecated in favor of the new syntax, but still supported, and most pre-existing projects are probably still using this. ReScript (frontend)/ReScript (backend): Now collectively known as "ReScript" and the focus of the team going forward. New web projects are expected to use this.
  - giantDinosaur 6y ago
    Thanks. That makes it very clear (to me), although definitely a harder sell to have to explain all these possibilities to others.
  - d3nj4l 6y ago
    AFAIK there isn't a ReScript to Native compiler. The way to do server-side ReScript is to use Node.
- scns 6y ago
  Paul Biggar of Darklang started a stdlibrary called tablecloth which offers the same API on frontend (Bucklescript/Reason) and backend (OCaml).
  - rienbdj 6y ago
    Yet he too gave up on ocaml
  - frou_dh 6y ago
    Yet another standard library for OCaml? You sure it wasn't a parody? :) I can think of: TheActualStdlib, Base/Core_kernel/Core, Batteries, Containers, Belt, ...
    - pbiggar 6y ago
      It has different goals from them: https://github.com/darklang/tablecloth https://github.com/darklang/tablecloth
steinuil 6y ago
This feels a lot like what happened to Hack, which at first was compatible with PHP and could be compiled to it, but later became its own language to better fit FB's needs, and it seems like they're giving OCaml the same treatment here with ReScript. There was actually some effort being made to keep OCaml tooling compatible with ReasonML (which is supported by dune[0] with no additional configuration) and BuckleScript integration with dune, which was being worked on before this rebrand, so it's kind of sad to see FB going off on their own with ReScript because they don't wanna do the work to upstream the changes they need. By the way, regular OCaml also has its own JS backend[1] which is of course completely incompatible with BuckleScript. 0: https://dune.build/ https://dune.build/ 1: https://github.com/ocsigen/js_of_ocaml https://github.com/ocsigen/js_of_ocaml
- swuecho 6y ago
  not sure if it's FB's decision or the project maintainer's. I am rather disappointed and think F# 's Fable is a better alternative.
  - xfer 6y ago
    Sorry to say, it's not. F# is nowhere near the wonderful type-sytem of Ocaml(although it's intentional). I would stick with js_of_ocaml for my js needs.
    - swuecho 6y ago
      last time I check, did not find a way to integrate jsoo easily with existing js code. is it any tutorial on how to write a js lib using jsoo?
      - xfer 6y ago
        You have to write binding glue code. Last i saw reason also required binding code to work. Here is a react binding for jsoo: https://github.com/jchavarri/jsoo-react https://github.com/jchavarri/jsoo-react .
- 6y ago
RobertKerans 6y ago
Feeling the same about this. Things were far clearer prior to this year -- I can no longer really see the point of the project and I'm just a bit sad about how it's all evolved. I've been following it since just before FB came in with ReasonML. I'd just started playing around with OCaml, found Bucklescript (which I still think is a marvel). Reason seemed like a way [albeit via that syntax] to get some traction for a very good language that imo seriously lacks in community, libraries and documentation. It felt slightly like Elixir, filling in a few holes in the underlying language and adding a layer of consistency. And it seeed a very good alternative to TS. But instead of coalescing into something, it seems to have just fragmented things further I hope something good does coalesce, but it's currently very confusing. Maybe just me but the opportunity feels like it's slipping away. As say, been following things very closely so I fully appreciate some the issues & understand some hidden things are based on internal needs of that part of FB
xfer 6y ago
Moreover it's hard to figure out which Ocaml version is Rescript on? Last i checked it was on 4.06, Do they backport any features, bugfixes? Now it seems like it's a complete fork with a new syntax. Maybe it serves the interest of people at facebook, but Ocaml users are unlikely to be using this instead of js_of_ocaml.
- swuecho 6y ago
  well. rescript still compile pure ocaml code just fine.
  - xfer 6y ago
    Ocaml is a moving target, new features are added. Bucklescript was 4.02 for a long time before moving to 4.06. It is unclear what the current status of Rescript is.
    - spyder81 6y ago
      It's still on 4.06, I think in 2021 they're targeting an upgrade (they haven't said how far forward they will upgrade to)
banjomet 6y ago
I think the only cool project using ReasonML that is native is revery[0], which is being used for onivim[1]. [0]: https://github.com/revery-ui/revery https://github.com/revery-ui/revery [1]: https://onivim.io/ https://onivim.io/
n42 6y ago
I am very disappointed by this as well. I am worried ReScript may have killed the momentum ReasonML had been gaining. This is how I understand this: 1996 - OCaml is born. 2016 - ReasonML, an alternative syntax that compiles to OCaml, is launched by Facebook. 2016 - A couple of months later, BuckleScript, an OCaml -> JS compiler is launched. 201X - Collaboration happens, BuckleScript couples tightly to ReasonML. 2020 - BuckleScript forks the ReasonML syntax and rebrands the compiler and the new syntax together under ReScript. 2020 - ReasonML still exists? Ok, fine. What is not clear to me is how the Facebook team behind ReasonML fits into ReScript. Are they aligned on the direction to take this community? What is the future of ReasonML? What was the goal? If it was to ease adoption by newcomers, as a newcomer, it has made this more difficult. As someone VERY EAGER to enter this family of languages today, I ended up giving up on all of that and decided to just learn OCaml. Now I'm dealing with Dune, Esy, OPAM, two competing async libraries and a community that is split between Jane Street libraries and the others.. but I really, really like OCaml!
- d3nj4l 6y ago
  > If it was to ease adoption by newcomers, as a newcomer, it has made this more difficult. As someone VERY EAGER to enter this family of languages today, I ended up giving up on all of that and decided to just learn OCaml. This was my exact path. A friend and I wanted to make a small SaaS using Reason for the backend, because it smoothed out a bunch of what we considered were "rough edges" in OCaml. Then the ReScript split happened, and we realised that Reason was dead for all intents and purposes. It's hard to imagine the Reason team will continue updating Reason when they're focusing hard on ReScript instead.
  - n42 6y ago
    here's the thing, _I don't think ReasonML is dead_! I've tried to dig for more clarity in the GitHub issue trackers and come up with mostly nothing. I am starting to get the feeling there is some kind of dispute or falling out between the maintainers of the two projects.
    - emteycz 6y ago

giantDinosaur 6y ago

I'm rather confused: what is ReasonML ? is ReasonML now ReScript, or is it still its own thing? A quick google suggests ReasonML is for targeting native platforms? But I used it for the web at one point? Anyway, there was already a problem with like three different standard libraries (which had super annoying differences like swapping parameter orders, presumably in an attempt to be friendlier etc.) or something when I first messed around with ReasonML (Bucklescript? Whatever the Facebook one was in 2019? I dunno.) and I hope this isn't also increasing that problem ?

ezrast 6y ago
ReasonML is merely an "alternate syntax" to OCaml, meaning it's a separate language that parses to the same AST. Traditionally it's been used along with Bucklescript, an OCaml-to-Javascript compiler developed by the same people, to do web work, but it's well-supported in the native OCaml compiler ecosystem as well. Now that ReScript has superseded ReasonML+Bucklescript, the only niche remaining for non-legacy ReasonML is native development work by folks who just don't like the normal OCaml syntax, or want to target both runtimes with the same code. Basically, the permutations are like this, with "ReScript (backend)" referring to the thing formerly known as BuckleScript: OCaml/native: What normal people think of when they hear "OCaml". ReasonML/native: Uncommon, but supported for folks who've bought into the Reason syntax. ReScript (frontend)/native: Nobody does this since ReScript is strictly worse than ReasonML when targeting native. I don't even know if it's possible. OCaml/ReScript (backend): Should be possible, but nobody does this. ReasonML/ReScript (backend): Sort-of-deprecated in favor of the new syntax, but still supported, and most pre-existing projects are probably still using this. ReScript (frontend)/ReScript (backend): Now collectively known as "ReScript" and the focus of the team going forward. New web projects are expected to use this.
- giantDinosaur 6y ago
  Thanks. That makes it very clear (to me), although definitely a harder sell to have to explain all these possibilities to others.
- d3nj4l 6y ago
  AFAIK there isn't a ReScript to Native compiler. The way to do server-side ReScript is to use Node.
scns 6y ago
Paul Biggar of Darklang started a stdlibrary called tablecloth which offers the same API on frontend (Bucklescript/Reason) and backend (OCaml).
- rienbdj 6y ago
  Yet he too gave up on ocaml
- frou_dh 6y ago
  Yet another standard library for OCaml? You sure it wasn't a parody? :) I can think of: TheActualStdlib, Base/Core_kernel/Core, Batteries, Containers, Belt, ...
  - pbiggar 6y ago
    It has different goals from them: https://github.com/darklang/tablecloth https://github.com/darklang/tablecloth

steinuil 6y ago

This feels a lot like what happened to Hack, which at first was compatible with PHP and could be compiled to it, but later became its own language to better fit FB's needs, and it seems like they're giving OCaml the same treatment here with ReScript. There was actually some effort being made to keep OCaml tooling compatible with ReasonML (which is supported by dune[0] with no additional configuration) and BuckleScript integration with dune, which was being worked on before this rebrand, so it's kind of sad to see FB going off on their own with ReScript because they don't wanna do the work to upstream the changes they need. By the way, regular OCaml also has its own JS backend[1] which is of course completely incompatible with BuckleScript. 0: https://dune.build/ https://dune.build/ 1: https://github.com/ocsigen/js_of_ocaml https://github.com/ocsigen/js_of_ocaml

swuecho 6y ago
not sure if it's FB's decision or the project maintainer's. I am rather disappointed and think F# 's Fable is a better alternative.
- xfer 6y ago
  Sorry to say, it's not. F# is nowhere near the wonderful type-sytem of Ocaml(although it's intentional). I would stick with js_of_ocaml for my js needs.
  - swuecho 6y ago
    last time I check, did not find a way to integrate jsoo easily with existing js code. is it any tutorial on how to write a js lib using jsoo?
    - xfer 6y ago
      You have to write binding glue code. Last i saw reason also required binding code to work. Here is a react binding for jsoo: https://github.com/jchavarri/jsoo-react https://github.com/jchavarri/jsoo-react .
6y ago

RobertKerans 6y ago

Feeling the same about this. Things were far clearer prior to this year -- I can no longer really see the point of the project and I'm just a bit sad about how it's all evolved. I've been following it since just before FB came in with ReasonML. I'd just started playing around with OCaml, found Bucklescript (which I still think is a marvel). Reason seemed like a way [albeit via that syntax] to get some traction for a very good language that imo seriously lacks in community, libraries and documentation. It felt slightly like Elixir, filling in a few holes in the underlying language and adding a layer of consistency. And it seeed a very good alternative to TS. But instead of coalescing into something, it seems to have just fragmented things further I hope something good does coalesce, but it's currently very confusing. Maybe just me but the opportunity feels like it's slipping away. As say, been following things very closely so I fully appreciate some the issues & understand some hidden things are based on internal needs of that part of FB

xfer 6y ago

Moreover it's hard to figure out which Ocaml version is Rescript on? Last i checked it was on 4.06, Do they backport any features, bugfixes? Now it seems like it's a complete fork with a new syntax. Maybe it serves the interest of people at facebook, but Ocaml users are unlikely to be using this instead of js_of_ocaml.

swuecho 6y ago
well. rescript still compile pure ocaml code just fine.
- xfer 6y ago
  Ocaml is a moving target, new features are added. Bucklescript was 4.02 for a long time before moving to 4.06. It is unclear what the current status of Rescript is.
  - spyder81 6y ago
    It's still on 4.06, I think in 2021 they're targeting an upgrade (they haven't said how far forward they will upgrade to)

banjomet 6y ago

I think the only cool project using ReasonML that is native is revery[0], which is being used for onivim[1]. [0]: https://github.com/revery-ui/revery https://github.com/revery-ui/revery [1]: https://onivim.io/ https://onivim.io/

n42 6y ago

I am very disappointed by this as well. I am worried ReScript may have killed the momentum ReasonML had been gaining. This is how I understand this: 1996 - OCaml is born. 2016 - ReasonML, an alternative syntax that compiles to OCaml, is launched by Facebook. 2016 - A couple of months later, BuckleScript, an OCaml -> JS compiler is launched. 201X - Collaboration happens, BuckleScript couples tightly to ReasonML. 2020 - BuckleScript forks the ReasonML syntax and rebrands the compiler and the new syntax together under ReScript. 2020 - ReasonML still exists? Ok, fine. What is not clear to me is how the Facebook team behind ReasonML fits into ReScript. Are they aligned on the direction to take this community? What is the future of ReasonML? What was the goal? If it was to ease adoption by newcomers, as a newcomer, it has made this more difficult. As someone VERY EAGER to enter this family of languages today, I ended up giving up on all of that and decided to just learn OCaml. Now I'm dealing with Dune, Esy, OPAM, two competing async libraries and a community that is split between Jane Street libraries and the others.. but I really, really like OCaml!

d3nj4l 6y ago
> If it was to ease adoption by newcomers, as a newcomer, it has made this more difficult. As someone VERY EAGER to enter this family of languages today, I ended up giving up on all of that and decided to just learn OCaml. This was my exact path. A friend and I wanted to make a small SaaS using Reason for the backend, because it smoothed out a bunch of what we considered were "rough edges" in OCaml. Then the ReScript split happened, and we realised that Reason was dead for all intents and purposes. It's hard to imagine the Reason team will continue updating Reason when they're focusing hard on ReScript instead.
- n42 6y ago
  here's the thing, _I don't think ReasonML is dead_! I've tried to dig for more clarity in the GitHub issue trackers and come up with mostly nothing. I am starting to get the feeling there is some kind of dispute or falling out between the maintainers of the two projects.
  - emteycz 6y ago