4 ms·

While we're sharing anecdata, here's mine: I've driven all over this country, in almost every state, frequently in rural areas, and usually speeding (and not t

While we're sharing anecdata, here's mine: I've driven all over this country, in almost every state, frequently in rural areas, and usually speeding (and not trivially). I've rarely been stopped and never felt like the police were trying to seize my vehicle or acting more intensely than the situation warrants. I don't know what the difference is, but I can second GP's statement that the experience you and GGP had isn't universal. I know it happens, and for some unlucky people it happens more than once, but I think discussions like this tend to overstate how often it occurs because of self selection bias.

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shakezula 6y ago
I definitely understand that I might be the unlucky one, I'm in no way implying it's the norm, and the selection bias is definitely a thing here - but what I'm trying to convey is that it's far more common than people think, and that even if it's pretty uncommon to rare, the consequences can be far worse than warranted or earned, and in many cases can be devastating, which is unacceptable for a system that is entirely constructed and can be changed with some legislation and enforcement.
- leereeves 6y ago
  Your first comment was certainly implying that its the norm: > I can tell you right now, police in rural areas absolutely _are_ looking for any and every excuse in the book to pull you over, search your vehicle, and question you far more intensely than the situation warrants. As was the root comment in this thread: > In these towns, if you have out-of-state plates, you will regularly be pulled over for doing 5mph below the speed limit. You can expect a dog to sniff around your car if the patrol has one. That's what I'm disputing here, not the injustice of CAF when it happens. Even people who oppose civil asset forfeiture (including me) still feel comfortable traveling throughout the nation.
  - shakezula 6y ago
    I'm not suggesting that people don't travel - my personal opinion is quite the opposite - I'm only saying that it's more common than people think and part of my statement to that was a personal anecdote in agreement with the OP because I've experienced nearly the exact phenomenon they described. I would not call that "implying the norm". Regardless, CAF needs to be abolished and I wish the crowd that cares so much about the Constitution would care about Amendments that aren't the 2nd and 1st.
emteycz 6y ago
In this case we're not looking for the universal or the average, we need to fix these awful things happening to these people - even one example is too much and we have way kore than that, and you should be happy it hasn't happened to you yet, because it's nothing more than luck.
rualca 6y ago
> I don't know what the difference is, but I can second GP's statement that the experience you and GGP had isn't universal. How frequent should that problem be until it's recognized as a problem? From where I'm standing, civil asset forfeiture sounds like blatant corruption and outright stealing made good on paper.
- leereeves 6y ago
  I completely agree; many of these cases are unjust, there are undoubtedly many cases of corruption, and the law should be changed. I only take issue with the suggestion in this thread that we should be afraid to travel around the nation because of these rare events. There's far more reason to be afraid of dying in a crash.
  - shakezula 6y ago
    I’m not saying you should be afraid of traveling the U.S. I’m saying I’ve traveled the U.S. a /lot/ in several different capacities (from personal trips to touring with bands) and that rural areas by and large have given me more problems in terms of police than urban areas ever have. I’m not implying that you should be afraid to travel - I’m saying quite plainly that the incentives around CAF are severely misaligned and that cops are very aware of this fact and abuse it when they can, and that takes different forms but one of those is mundane traffic stops that turn into roadside interrogations.
    - NeutronStar 6y ago
      > I’m saying I’ve traveled the U.S. a /lot/ in several different capacities (from personal trips to touring with bands) and that rural areas by and large have given me more problems in terms of police than urban areas ever have. How much time do you spend traveling in rural vs urban area do you think? If you traveled 75% of the time in rural areas it would follow suit that 75% of the time those arrests would be in rural areas. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean shit in a country with 330M people.

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shakezula 6y ago

I definitely understand that I might be the unlucky one, I'm in no way implying it's the norm, and the selection bias is definitely a thing here - but what I'm trying to convey is that it's far more common than people think, and that even if it's pretty uncommon to rare, the consequences can be far worse than warranted or earned, and in many cases can be devastating, which is unacceptable for a system that is entirely constructed and can be changed with some legislation and enforcement.

leereeves 6y ago
Your first comment was certainly implying that its the norm: > I can tell you right now, police in rural areas absolutely _are_ looking for any and every excuse in the book to pull you over, search your vehicle, and question you far more intensely than the situation warrants. As was the root comment in this thread: > In these towns, if you have out-of-state plates, you will regularly be pulled over for doing 5mph below the speed limit. You can expect a dog to sniff around your car if the patrol has one. That's what I'm disputing here, not the injustice of CAF when it happens. Even people who oppose civil asset forfeiture (including me) still feel comfortable traveling throughout the nation.
- shakezula 6y ago
  I'm not suggesting that people don't travel - my personal opinion is quite the opposite - I'm only saying that it's more common than people think and part of my statement to that was a personal anecdote in agreement with the OP because I've experienced nearly the exact phenomenon they described. I would not call that "implying the norm". Regardless, CAF needs to be abolished and I wish the crowd that cares so much about the Constitution would care about Amendments that aren't the 2nd and 1st.

emteycz 6y ago

In this case we're not looking for the universal or the average, we need to fix these awful things happening to these people - even one example is too much and we have way kore than that, and you should be happy it hasn't happened to you yet, because it's nothing more than luck.

rualca 6y ago

> I don't know what the difference is, but I can second GP's statement that the experience you and GGP had isn't universal. How frequent should that problem be until it's recognized as a problem? From where I'm standing, civil asset forfeiture sounds like blatant corruption and outright stealing made good on paper.

leereeves 6y ago
I completely agree; many of these cases are unjust, there are undoubtedly many cases of corruption, and the law should be changed. I only take issue with the suggestion in this thread that we should be afraid to travel around the nation because of these rare events. There's far more reason to be afraid of dying in a crash.
- shakezula 6y ago
  I’m not saying you should be afraid of traveling the U.S. I’m saying I’ve traveled the U.S. a /lot/ in several different capacities (from personal trips to touring with bands) and that rural areas by and large have given me more problems in terms of police than urban areas ever have. I’m not implying that you should be afraid to travel - I’m saying quite plainly that the incentives around CAF are severely misaligned and that cops are very aware of this fact and abuse it when they can, and that takes different forms but one of those is mundane traffic stops that turn into roadside interrogations.
  - NeutronStar 6y ago
    > I’m saying I’ve traveled the U.S. a /lot/ in several different capacities (from personal trips to touring with bands) and that rural areas by and large have given me more problems in terms of police than urban areas ever have. How much time do you spend traveling in rural vs urban area do you think? If you traveled 75% of the time in rural areas it would follow suit that 75% of the time those arrests would be in rural areas. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean shit in a country with 330M people.