6 ms·

I’m a white guy. I can absolutely attest to the type of policing the parent comment is referencing. I’ve grown up in and traveled all over the midwestern and so

I’m a white guy. I can absolutely attest to the type of policing the parent comment is referencing. I’ve grown up in and traveled all over the midwestern and southwestern United States and I can tell you right now, police in rural areas absolutely _are_ looking for any and every excuse in the book to pull you over, search your vehicle, and question you far more intensely than the situation warrants. I’ve also had my car searched by K-9 after getting pulled over for an alleged turn signal violation, so it’s definitely not melodramatic or hyperbolic. For reference, I was driving a stock Acura with in-state plates when that happened. Not anything flashy or suspect. They rely on asset forfeiture for income to make up budget differences and it’s absolutely immoral to leverage law enforcement like that. They know that what they seize goes directly into their budgets and they act on it. More than likely we have the war on drugs to thank for it, too, but that’s a different argument for a different day.

D895n9o33436N42 6y ago
Your comment echoes my experience... in New York City. I’m white too, and I’d gotten pulled over more times in NYC than anywhere else. There’s always something: you drove over the yellow line for a second; your hands weren’t on 10 and 2; we may have seen a cell phone at your ear; why does your car have a big dent? The NYPD is one huge pain in the ass. I live in Florida now; sheriff’s deputies in my county are very chill. They wave and say hello, and they don’t care why there’s something weird in the back of my truck.
- winter_blue 6y ago
  Huh, this is strange. My experience has been the opposoite When did you live in NYC? I'm not white (I'm of Indian / South Asian ancestry.) I lived in NYC for years, and even owned and drove my own car in NYC for a few years (2017, 2018, and 2019). There were many times that I'd been speeding, and I've never been pulled over for speeding (not even once) inside of NYC. I've only been pulled over by NYPD once, and that one time was not without reason (I had made a right turn where right turn were not allowed). That one time they were pretty professional. There was even a time when I was distracted, and drove partially through a red light (in Queens), and the car coming from the other side was a NYPD cruiser. If I hadn't braked, I would have hit them. The officers inside the NYPD cruiser glared at me (with a very angry face), and I braked, and then reversed back to behind the red light. But they went on their way (and didn't give me a ticket or anything). I'm not sure why my experience has been so different. Maybe the NYPD changed after wave of BLM/etc. protests that started in 2014?
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Lack of evidence isn’t evidence of lack. Presence of evidence is evidence of presence. That is to say just because it didn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen - and because it happened to other people, we know it does happen in spite of it never having happened to you.
- xfitm3 6y ago
  NYPD is extremely corrupt. I know someone who became an officer there and quit and moved to long island due to the pressure for corruption/hazing/etc. Another friend of mine is a retired NYPD lieutenant and I forgot exactly what happened but he told me a story of someone claiming to be innocent and his response was "How do you think I became lieutenant?" Don't fuck with the white shirts.
- nichos 6y ago
  Thankfully, the libertarian party of Florida successfully lobbied Tallahassee, and civil asset forfeiture is no longer legal in Florida.
  - xfitm3 6y ago
    Florida is an amazing state, I wish I lived there. DeSantis has successfully banned local governments from future coronavirus restrictions including lockdowns/shutdowns. There is 100% chance I will lose a substantial amount of money due to a lockdown, there is %99+ chance I will survive the virus. Of course this risk profile isn't for everyone but that's the beauty of personal liberty: the freedom to make the choice that's right for you.
    - rualca 6y ago
      > Of course this risk profile isn't for everyone but that's the beauty of personal liberty: the freedom to make the choice that's right for you. But your personal choice does determine if you put the lives of not only everyone around you but also your entire community at risk. Does that count for anything?
      - xfitm3 6y ago
        Personal protection is just that: personal. If masks are not adequate to protect you from others who may not be following best practices then I think the PPE standards need to be adjusted. You cannot trust/expect everyone to adhere to them perfectly. I live in an area that isn't Florida but does not adhere to quarantine guidelines. Personally, I don't know of anyone who has been sick. We wash our hands and take basic precautions and anecdotally that has been sufficient. Personal disclaimer: I am anti lockdown. This is causing substantial damage to our economy and I depend on my community having the financial means to purchase my services and products. I work in construction and the majority of the jobsites do not wear masks. We are all ok. If you are feeling sick then don't be an asshole and show up to work. Everyone I know has followed this basic guideline. Of course you will say you can have it and be asymptomatic etc and we could discuss this ad nauseum but I will just tell you I am not open to changing my mind. I have an absolutism mentality on this position. I don't think we know enough about the virus to make these types of detrimental restrictions. For example we now know putting someone on a ventilator for an extended period of time typically does more harm than good.
leereeves 6y ago
While we're sharing anecdata, here's mine: I've driven all over this country, in almost every state, frequently in rural areas, and usually speeding (and not trivially). I've rarely been stopped and never felt like the police were trying to seize my vehicle or acting more intensely than the situation warrants. I don't know what the difference is, but I can second GP's statement that the experience you and GGP had isn't universal. I know it happens, and for some unlucky people it happens more than once, but I think discussions like this tend to overstate how often it occurs because of self selection bias.
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- shakezula 6y ago
  I definitely understand that I might be the unlucky one, I'm in no way implying it's the norm, and the selection bias is definitely a thing here - but what I'm trying to convey is that it's far more common than people think, and that even if it's pretty uncommon to rare, the consequences can be far worse than warranted or earned, and in many cases can be devastating, which is unacceptable for a system that is entirely constructed and can be changed with some legislation and enforcement.
  - leereeves 6y ago
    Your first comment was certainly implying that its the norm: > I can tell you right now, police in rural areas absolutely _are_ looking for any and every excuse in the book to pull you over, search your vehicle, and question you far more intensely than the situation warrants. As was the root comment in this thread: > In these towns, if you have out-of-state plates, you will regularly be pulled over for doing 5mph below the speed limit. You can expect a dog to sniff around your car if the patrol has one. That's what I'm disputing here, not the injustice of CAF when it happens. Even people who oppose civil asset forfeiture (including me) still feel comfortable traveling throughout the nation.
MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
Thankfully my state requires a conviction for asset forfeiture to remain. Otherwise you are entitled it back within a set period of time. But then again, our cops aren't exactly despised or severely strapped for cash. They're mostly like the cop from wayne's world.
xnx 6y ago
Reducing illegitimate traffic stops is one of the side-benefits I see as more cars become self driving.

D895n9o33436N42 6y ago

Your comment echoes my experience... in New York City. I’m white too, and I’d gotten pulled over more times in NYC than anywhere else. There’s always something: you drove over the yellow line for a second; your hands weren’t on 10 and 2; we may have seen a cell phone at your ear; why does your car have a big dent? The NYPD is one huge pain in the ass. I live in Florida now; sheriff’s deputies in my county are very chill. They wave and say hello, and they don’t care why there’s something weird in the back of my truck.

winter_blue 6y ago
Huh, this is strange. My experience has been the opposoite When did you live in NYC? I'm not white (I'm of Indian / South Asian ancestry.) I lived in NYC for years, and even owned and drove my own car in NYC for a few years (2017, 2018, and 2019). There were many times that I'd been speeding, and I've never been pulled over for speeding (not even once) inside of NYC. I've only been pulled over by NYPD once, and that one time was not without reason (I had made a right turn where right turn were not allowed). That one time they were pretty professional. There was even a time when I was distracted, and drove partially through a red light (in Queens), and the car coming from the other side was a NYPD cruiser. If I hadn't braked, I would have hit them. The officers inside the NYPD cruiser glared at me (with a very angry face), and I braked, and then reversed back to behind the red light. But they went on their way (and didn't give me a ticket or anything). I'm not sure why my experience has been so different. Maybe the NYPD changed after wave of BLM/etc. protests that started in 2014?
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Lack of evidence isn’t evidence of lack. Presence of evidence is evidence of presence. That is to say just because it didn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen - and because it happened to other people, we know it does happen in spite of it never having happened to you.
xfitm3 6y ago
NYPD is extremely corrupt. I know someone who became an officer there and quit and moved to long island due to the pressure for corruption/hazing/etc. Another friend of mine is a retired NYPD lieutenant and I forgot exactly what happened but he told me a story of someone claiming to be innocent and his response was "How do you think I became lieutenant?" Don't fuck with the white shirts.
nichos 6y ago
Thankfully, the libertarian party of Florida successfully lobbied Tallahassee, and civil asset forfeiture is no longer legal in Florida.
- xfitm3 6y ago
  Florida is an amazing state, I wish I lived there. DeSantis has successfully banned local governments from future coronavirus restrictions including lockdowns/shutdowns. There is 100% chance I will lose a substantial amount of money due to a lockdown, there is %99+ chance I will survive the virus. Of course this risk profile isn't for everyone but that's the beauty of personal liberty: the freedom to make the choice that's right for you.
  - rualca 6y ago
    > Of course this risk profile isn't for everyone but that's the beauty of personal liberty: the freedom to make the choice that's right for you. But your personal choice does determine if you put the lives of not only everyone around you but also your entire community at risk. Does that count for anything?
    - xfitm3 6y ago
      Personal protection is just that: personal. If masks are not adequate to protect you from others who may not be following best practices then I think the PPE standards need to be adjusted. You cannot trust/expect everyone to adhere to them perfectly. I live in an area that isn't Florida but does not adhere to quarantine guidelines. Personally, I don't know of anyone who has been sick. We wash our hands and take basic precautions and anecdotally that has been sufficient. Personal disclaimer: I am anti lockdown. This is causing substantial damage to our economy and I depend on my community having the financial means to purchase my services and products. I work in construction and the majority of the jobsites do not wear masks. We are all ok. If you are feeling sick then don't be an asshole and show up to work. Everyone I know has followed this basic guideline. Of course you will say you can have it and be asymptomatic etc and we could discuss this ad nauseum but I will just tell you I am not open to changing my mind. I have an absolutism mentality on this position. I don't think we know enough about the virus to make these types of detrimental restrictions. For example we now know putting someone on a ventilator for an extended period of time typically does more harm than good.

leereeves 6y ago

While we're sharing anecdata, here's mine: I've driven all over this country, in almost every state, frequently in rural areas, and usually speeding (and not trivially). I've rarely been stopped and never felt like the police were trying to seize my vehicle or acting more intensely than the situation warrants. I don't know what the difference is, but I can second GP's statement that the experience you and GGP had isn't universal. I know it happens, and for some unlucky people it happens more than once, but I think discussions like this tend to overstate how often it occurs because of self selection bias.

deleted 6y ago
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deleted 6y ago
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shakezula 6y ago
I definitely understand that I might be the unlucky one, I'm in no way implying it's the norm, and the selection bias is definitely a thing here - but what I'm trying to convey is that it's far more common than people think, and that even if it's pretty uncommon to rare, the consequences can be far worse than warranted or earned, and in many cases can be devastating, which is unacceptable for a system that is entirely constructed and can be changed with some legislation and enforcement.
- leereeves 6y ago
  Your first comment was certainly implying that its the norm: > I can tell you right now, police in rural areas absolutely _are_ looking for any and every excuse in the book to pull you over, search your vehicle, and question you far more intensely than the situation warrants. As was the root comment in this thread: > In these towns, if you have out-of-state plates, you will regularly be pulled over for doing 5mph below the speed limit. You can expect a dog to sniff around your car if the patrol has one. That's what I'm disputing here, not the injustice of CAF when it happens. Even people who oppose civil asset forfeiture (including me) still feel comfortable traveling throughout the nation.

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago

Thankfully my state requires a conviction for asset forfeiture to remain. Otherwise you are entitled it back within a set period of time. But then again, our cops aren't exactly despised or severely strapped for cash. They're mostly like the cop from wayne's world.

xnx 6y ago

Reducing illegitimate traffic stops is one of the side-benefits I see as more cars become self driving.