6 ms·

I've road tripped all over the US without ever encountering that kind of behavior. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but your characterization of expecting to b

I've road tripped all over the US without ever encountering that kind of behavior. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but your characterization of expecting to be pulled over and have a dog search your car is a bit melodramatic.

meekrohprocess 6y ago
I understand your misgivings, and I'll admit that I don't literally have enough carbon paper to make a suit out of warnings. But I do have a lot of them, and no actual tickets from those areas. I have had multiple K-9 searches with a clean car, and I did regularly get pulled over for doing less than the posted speed limit. I can't prove that civil asset forfeiture is the reason, but my vehicle would have been a juicy target because of the things attached to it.
- satisfaction 6y ago
  Doing less than the speed limit is indeed strange, that behavior is probably exhibited by drunk/doped up drivers more often than sober drivers. The fact that you get warnings demonstrates that they pull overs are not due to ill will, if they wanted to steal from you they were half way there: too slow is probable cause for a traffic stop and they could easily plant some drugs or just lie, the statement of a police officer is evidence. Set your cruise control at the speed limit or 1 mph over and don't swerve.
  - patmcc 6y ago
    Driving below the speed limit is strange, driving above the speed limit is illegal. Almost sounds like the police can pull over and search whoever they like, weird.
    - jet_32951 6y ago
      Driving over the speed limit is speeding, therefore actionable. Driving under the speed limit indicates impairment, therefore actionable. Driving exactly at the speed limit indicates a wise-ass and we can't have that.
    - CWuestefeld 6y ago
      I just finished taking a defensive driving course to get a speeding ticket washed. The course material mentioned a couple of times that, quote, "driving at an unsafe speed" is illegal. And what's unsafe takes into account the prevailing conditions (so you can be ticketed when going the speed limit if, say, it's raining), and also the fact that deltas in speed are more dangerous than absolute speed (so if the speed limit is 55, everybody else is going 60, and you're going 40, you may well get a ticket 'cause you're creating a danger. Almost sounds like the police can pull over and search whoever they like Yep, that's true within 100 miles of the border - an area that accounts for the vast majority of US residents. I've been stopped several times near the Mexico border for no real reason; one office asks me questions for a minute or two, just long enough for their drug-sniffing dog to make the full round of my car and come up empty.
      - rascul 6y ago
        >> Almost sounds like the police can pull over and search whoever they like > Yep, that's true within 100 miles of the border - an area that accounts for the vast majority of US residents. If you're outside that 100 miles they can just make something up.
  - dadHasSpoken88 6y ago
    Anecdotally, you’re wrong. Lived in a small Midwest town where the high school dunces became the town police. They’d brag about “probable cause” power trips letting them pull over women they were attracted to and men they wanted to intimidate. America is a helicopter police state, yet to breed out a generation raised on great war success, and Cold War paranoia.
  - rolph 6y ago
    so obeying the law is strange behavior or probable cause... I find that very interesting.
  - smileysteve 6y ago
    > Doing less than the speed limit is indeed strange It really depends on locale; Some states (hello states rights southern states) have a 10 - 15mph speed trap (reform the police) style law from the speed limits in 1975. Some people drive on military bases, where, if they go 1mph over, it can affect their career.
yummypaint 6y ago
Me neither, but I also know people who do experience that. The difference is that I'm a white guy and they are not.
bigbubba 6y ago
The only time I ever got pulled over in that part of the country is when I was doing about a hundred mph. I think that was a bit unfair since the road was straighter than an arrow from horizon to horizon, but breaking dumb laws is still lawbreaking I guess.
- wahern 6y ago
  Driving a hundred mph on a remote, empty road can be one of the most dangerous things you could possibly do. Large animals can and will jump right out in front of you; more than usual as they're not habituated to the dangers of cars. I remember once driving through West Texas on US-90 (the highway, not the interstate) in the evening on a cross-country drive. I don't think I passed more than a handful of cars, if that, but after barely missing several antelope despite driving well under the speed limit, I just called it a night and pulled into the next motel I found. It really drove home the point that the dangers aren't only the obvious ones. So even on a straight, empty road as flat as Kansas[1] and in broad daylight I would never go so fast. Who knows what might jump out at you, from any which way. [1] I've driven US-50 coast-to-coast. Not much of interest in Kansas other than experiencing exactly how flat it is, particularly the western portion coming down from Colorado.
  - meowster 6y ago
    Also, if your tire is damaged (visible to the exterior of the tire or otherwise), fast speeds could cause a blowout. A blowout at fast speed can induce a rollover. If your going to speed, at least make sure your car is in good shape the best you can.
    - bigbubba 6y ago
      I agree. This occurred about a week I had the car in the shop to be checked out before the trip. I only had about a thousand miles on it since it was last in a garage.
  - panopticon 6y ago
    Totaled a car doing around 90mph on I-90 outside of Buffalo, WY when a deer jumped into the side of the car. It hasn't changed my driving behaviors, but I start to sweat bullets when the sun sets. Large animals are part of the reason most people I know who can afford to do so drive large pickups and SUVs around these parts. My mother-in-law seems to have a deer run-in every other year.
shakezula 6y ago
I’m a white guy. I can absolutely attest to the type of policing the parent comment is referencing. I’ve grown up in and traveled all over the midwestern and southwestern United States and I can tell you right now, police in rural areas absolutely _are_ looking for any and every excuse in the book to pull you over, search your vehicle, and question you far more intensely than the situation warrants. I’ve also had my car searched by K-9 after getting pulled over for an alleged turn signal violation, so it’s definitely not melodramatic or hyperbolic. For reference, I was driving a stock Acura with in-state plates when that happened. Not anything flashy or suspect. They rely on asset forfeiture for income to make up budget differences and it’s absolutely immoral to leverage law enforcement like that. They know that what they seize goes directly into their budgets and they act on it. More than likely we have the war on drugs to thank for it, too, but that’s a different argument for a different day.
- D895n9o33436N42 6y ago
  Your comment echoes my experience... in New York City. I’m white too, and I’d gotten pulled over more times in NYC than anywhere else. There’s always something: you drove over the yellow line for a second; your hands weren’t on 10 and 2; we may have seen a cell phone at your ear; why does your car have a big dent? The NYPD is one huge pain in the ass. I live in Florida now; sheriff’s deputies in my county are very chill. They wave and say hello, and they don’t care why there’s something weird in the back of my truck.
  - winter_blue 6y ago
    Huh, this is strange. My experience has been the opposoite When did you live in NYC? I'm not white (I'm of Indian / South Asian ancestry.) I lived in NYC for years, and even owned and drove my own car in NYC for a few years (2017, 2018, and 2019). There were many times that I'd been speeding, and I've never been pulled over for speeding (not even once) inside of NYC. I've only been pulled over by NYPD once, and that one time was not without reason (I had made a right turn where right turn were not allowed). That one time they were pretty professional. There was even a time when I was distracted, and drove partially through a red light (in Queens), and the car coming from the other side was a NYPD cruiser. If I hadn't braked, I would have hit them. The officers inside the NYPD cruiser glared at me (with a very angry face), and I braked, and then reversed back to behind the red light. But they went on their way (and didn't give me a ticket or anything). I'm not sure why my experience has been so different. Maybe the NYPD changed after wave of BLM/etc. protests that started in 2014?
macksd 6y ago
I've had a lot of problems crossing the borders between Colorado and neighboring states, presumably because my Colorado plates are considered probable cause that I'm smuggling marijuana. It's always "oh I thought your tail light was out but now I see it's not", "your registration has expired... oh I must have read it wrong". I've been ticketed for things that when I showed up to court were laughed at or dismissed for not even being a thing. I've yet to have a drug dog search the car, but I've had a handful of very confrontational and aggressive police officers get in my face and take a good look around my car making vague comments about how something fishy is going on, asking where I'm going, where I've come from, who's who in the car, etc.
jancsika 6y ago
It's worth noting that these civil asset forfeiture programs were sold to a lot of these small towns as a way of generating revenue off of popular drug routes. E.g., a town is off a highway that's a known part of a drug route. A consultant comes in to the police dept. and does a powerpoint showing an average annual amount of drug money they can confiscate in order to fund the police/town budget. And the consultant probably has numbers from other towns who did the same. Boom-- you've got yet another civil asset forfeiture program in yet another small town. So you get this town's police pulling over a larger and larger set of people who fit whatever description they've taught themselves rakes in the dough. There's a big incentive to do this, and to enlarge the set of who can be pulled because-- until relatively recently-- there has been very little risk. I'm going to rankly speculate that the value of the OP's stuff he was lugging was high enough for such officers to take the time to pull OP over. But since OP didn't fit the drug runner description and the officer couldn't find any other pretense, they let them go. I'll also rankly speculate you've carried stuff of much less value visible to an officer who sees you drive by. Race almost certainly plays into this as well, but I haven't read a study to know the numbers on that.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

meekrohprocess 6y ago

I understand your misgivings, and I'll admit that I don't literally have enough carbon paper to make a suit out of warnings. But I do have a lot of them, and no actual tickets from those areas. I have had multiple K-9 searches with a clean car, and I did regularly get pulled over for doing less than the posted speed limit. I can't prove that civil asset forfeiture is the reason, but my vehicle would have been a juicy target because of the things attached to it.

satisfaction 6y ago
Doing less than the speed limit is indeed strange, that behavior is probably exhibited by drunk/doped up drivers more often than sober drivers. The fact that you get warnings demonstrates that they pull overs are not due to ill will, if they wanted to steal from you they were half way there: too slow is probable cause for a traffic stop and they could easily plant some drugs or just lie, the statement of a police officer is evidence. Set your cruise control at the speed limit or 1 mph over and don't swerve.
- patmcc 6y ago
  Driving below the speed limit is strange, driving above the speed limit is illegal. Almost sounds like the police can pull over and search whoever they like, weird.
  - jet_32951 6y ago
    Driving over the speed limit is speeding, therefore actionable. Driving under the speed limit indicates impairment, therefore actionable. Driving exactly at the speed limit indicates a wise-ass and we can't have that.
  - CWuestefeld 6y ago
    I just finished taking a defensive driving course to get a speeding ticket washed. The course material mentioned a couple of times that, quote, "driving at an unsafe speed" is illegal. And what's unsafe takes into account the prevailing conditions (so you can be ticketed when going the speed limit if, say, it's raining), and also the fact that deltas in speed are more dangerous than absolute speed (so if the speed limit is 55, everybody else is going 60, and you're going 40, you may well get a ticket 'cause you're creating a danger. Almost sounds like the police can pull over and search whoever they like Yep, that's true within 100 miles of the border - an area that accounts for the vast majority of US residents. I've been stopped several times near the Mexico border for no real reason; one office asks me questions for a minute or two, just long enough for their drug-sniffing dog to make the full round of my car and come up empty.
    - rascul 6y ago
      >> Almost sounds like the police can pull over and search whoever they like > Yep, that's true within 100 miles of the border - an area that accounts for the vast majority of US residents. If you're outside that 100 miles they can just make something up.
- dadHasSpoken88 6y ago
  Anecdotally, you’re wrong. Lived in a small Midwest town where the high school dunces became the town police. They’d brag about “probable cause” power trips letting them pull over women they were attracted to and men they wanted to intimidate. America is a helicopter police state, yet to breed out a generation raised on great war success, and Cold War paranoia.
- rolph 6y ago
  so obeying the law is strange behavior or probable cause... I find that very interesting.
- smileysteve 6y ago
  > Doing less than the speed limit is indeed strange It really depends on locale; Some states (hello states rights southern states) have a 10 - 15mph speed trap (reform the police) style law from the speed limits in 1975. Some people drive on military bases, where, if they go 1mph over, it can affect their career.

yummypaint 6y ago

Me neither, but I also know people who do experience that. The difference is that I'm a white guy and they are not.

bigbubba 6y ago

The only time I ever got pulled over in that part of the country is when I was doing about a hundred mph. I think that was a bit unfair since the road was straighter than an arrow from horizon to horizon, but breaking dumb laws is still lawbreaking I guess.

wahern 6y ago
Driving a hundred mph on a remote, empty road can be one of the most dangerous things you could possibly do. Large animals can and will jump right out in front of you; more than usual as they're not habituated to the dangers of cars. I remember once driving through West Texas on US-90 (the highway, not the interstate) in the evening on a cross-country drive. I don't think I passed more than a handful of cars, if that, but after barely missing several antelope despite driving well under the speed limit, I just called it a night and pulled into the next motel I found. It really drove home the point that the dangers aren't only the obvious ones. So even on a straight, empty road as flat as Kansas[1] and in broad daylight I would never go so fast. Who knows what might jump out at you, from any which way. [1] I've driven US-50 coast-to-coast. Not much of interest in Kansas other than experiencing exactly how flat it is, particularly the western portion coming down from Colorado.
- meowster 6y ago
  Also, if your tire is damaged (visible to the exterior of the tire or otherwise), fast speeds could cause a blowout. A blowout at fast speed can induce a rollover. If your going to speed, at least make sure your car is in good shape the best you can.
  - bigbubba 6y ago
    I agree. This occurred about a week I had the car in the shop to be checked out before the trip. I only had about a thousand miles on it since it was last in a garage.
- panopticon 6y ago
  Totaled a car doing around 90mph on I-90 outside of Buffalo, WY when a deer jumped into the side of the car. It hasn't changed my driving behaviors, but I start to sweat bullets when the sun sets. Large animals are part of the reason most people I know who can afford to do so drive large pickups and SUVs around these parts. My mother-in-law seems to have a deer run-in every other year.

shakezula 6y ago

I’m a white guy. I can absolutely attest to the type of policing the parent comment is referencing. I’ve grown up in and traveled all over the midwestern and southwestern United States and I can tell you right now, police in rural areas absolutely _are_ looking for any and every excuse in the book to pull you over, search your vehicle, and question you far more intensely than the situation warrants. I’ve also had my car searched by K-9 after getting pulled over for an alleged turn signal violation, so it’s definitely not melodramatic or hyperbolic. For reference, I was driving a stock Acura with in-state plates when that happened. Not anything flashy or suspect. They rely on asset forfeiture for income to make up budget differences and it’s absolutely immoral to leverage law enforcement like that. They know that what they seize goes directly into their budgets and they act on it. More than likely we have the war on drugs to thank for it, too, but that’s a different argument for a different day.

D895n9o33436N42 6y ago
Your comment echoes my experience... in New York City. I’m white too, and I’d gotten pulled over more times in NYC than anywhere else. There’s always something: you drove over the yellow line for a second; your hands weren’t on 10 and 2; we may have seen a cell phone at your ear; why does your car have a big dent? The NYPD is one huge pain in the ass. I live in Florida now; sheriff’s deputies in my county are very chill. They wave and say hello, and they don’t care why there’s something weird in the back of my truck.
- winter_blue 6y ago
  Huh, this is strange. My experience has been the opposoite When did you live in NYC? I'm not white (I'm of Indian / South Asian ancestry.) I lived in NYC for years, and even owned and drove my own car in NYC for a few years (2017, 2018, and 2019). There were many times that I'd been speeding, and I've never been pulled over for speeding (not even once) inside of NYC. I've only been pulled over by NYPD once, and that one time was not without reason (I had made a right turn where right turn were not allowed). That one time they were pretty professional. There was even a time when I was distracted, and drove partially through a red light (in Queens), and the car coming from the other side was a NYPD cruiser. If I hadn't braked, I would have hit them. The officers inside the NYPD cruiser glared at me (with a very angry face), and I braked, and then reversed back to behind the red light. But they went on their way (and didn't give me a ticket or anything). I'm not sure why my experience has been so different. Maybe the NYPD changed after wave of BLM/etc. protests that started in 2014?

macksd 6y ago

I've had a lot of problems crossing the borders between Colorado and neighboring states, presumably because my Colorado plates are considered probable cause that I'm smuggling marijuana. It's always "oh I thought your tail light was out but now I see it's not", "your registration has expired... oh I must have read it wrong". I've been ticketed for things that when I showed up to court were laughed at or dismissed for not even being a thing. I've yet to have a drug dog search the car, but I've had a handful of very confrontational and aggressive police officers get in my face and take a good look around my car making vague comments about how something fishy is going on, asking where I'm going, where I've come from, who's who in the car, etc.

jancsika 6y ago

It's worth noting that these civil asset forfeiture programs were sold to a lot of these small towns as a way of generating revenue off of popular drug routes. E.g., a town is off a highway that's a known part of a drug route. A consultant comes in to the police dept. and does a powerpoint showing an average annual amount of drug money they can confiscate in order to fund the police/town budget. And the consultant probably has numbers from other towns who did the same. Boom-- you've got yet another civil asset forfeiture program in yet another small town. So you get this town's police pulling over a larger and larger set of people who fit whatever description they've taught themselves rakes in the dough. There's a big incentive to do this, and to enlarge the set of who can be pulled because-- until relatively recently-- there has been very little risk. I'm going to rankly speculate that the value of the OP's stuff he was lugging was high enough for such officers to take the time to pull OP over. But since OP didn't fit the drug runner description and the officer couldn't find any other pretense, they let them go. I'll also rankly speculate you've carried stuff of much less value visible to an officer who sees you drive by. Race almost certainly plays into this as well, but I haven't read a study to know the numbers on that.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]