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> I have no doubts that she has experienced institutional racism at Google I think Google saw a black female PhD and jumped to hire her. All the boxes, and a w

> I have no doubts that she has experienced institutional racism at Google I think Google saw a black female PhD and jumped to hire her. All the boxes, and a well respected PhD. So it's hard to imagine how they'd be racist against someone they head hunted and desperately wanted. It's not like they hired her from behind a curtain and only found out who they hired once they said yes. > Based on conversations with managers ... nearly an explicit policy HR holds ... that ultimatums would never be tolerated and could result in termination. Yes, but it's would not could. And especially quickly when the demand could never be fulfilled. I've heard of only one ultimatum that worked, but it was for the benefit of both parties. A senior engineer said they'd be leaving at the end of the quarter if the company didn't let them hire a team around them, including a peer. They gave two choices, fold the project and move me into a supported team, or support this one. > one would hope that a company would trust an established ethicist about whether it were appropriate to issue an ultimatum If she'd said "stop, don't release that AI, it's got a critical bug that will hurt people" then they probably would. That's the role they hired her for. But I imagine they'd think she's a bit too close to her own situation, and out of her area, to take her word here and tell her the names of the anonymous reviewers for great justice.

kitsune_ 6y ago
> I think Google saw a black female PhD and jumped to hire her. All the boxes, and a well respected PhD. So it's hard to imagine how they'd be racist against someone they head hunted and desperately wanted. I don't think that's true. Co-optation is a concept that is well studied in sociology and political science. In fact I'd wager that a lot of the DEI initiatives are pure PR. Additionally you cannot deduce whether an entire institution is "institutionally" X or not X just because one individual behaved one way or the other. The fact that Jeff Dean hired Gebru doesn't tell you anything. Actual statistical measures, such as retention rates, percentage of work force, percentage of leadership etc. need to be consulted.
- HexagonalKitten 6y ago
  > a lot of the DEI initiatives are pure PR. Of course. > Additionally you cannot deduce whether an entire institution is "institutionally" X or not X just because one individual behaved one way or the other. That's not required here. Even if the diversity push is pure PR, it's still coordinated company-wide and reflected in all their messaging. Even if it is pure PR, they still stand to gain from supporting it. > The fact that Jeff Dean hired Gebru doesn't tell you anything. It tells you quite a lot. Google is willing to hire ethicists, blacks, and women. They're willing to let them publish many papers, and go to many conventions representing Google. > Actual statistical measures, such as retention rates, percentage of work force, percentage of leadership etc. need to be consulted No, that's only to disprove the literal conspiracy theory that Google is secretly racist and is hiring black people as part of a white-supremacy program. There'd need to be something to make that likely before it's even worth investigating. As long as the most likely theory is a disgruntled employee... Did you read her papers?

kitsune_ 6y ago

> I think Google saw a black female PhD and jumped to hire her. All the boxes, and a well respected PhD. So it's hard to imagine how they'd be racist against someone they head hunted and desperately wanted. I don't think that's true. Co-optation is a concept that is well studied in sociology and political science. In fact I'd wager that a lot of the DEI initiatives are pure PR. Additionally you cannot deduce whether an entire institution is "institutionally" X or not X just because one individual behaved one way or the other. The fact that Jeff Dean hired Gebru doesn't tell you anything. Actual statistical measures, such as retention rates, percentage of work force, percentage of leadership etc. need to be consulted.

HexagonalKitten 6y ago
> a lot of the DEI initiatives are pure PR. Of course. > Additionally you cannot deduce whether an entire institution is "institutionally" X or not X just because one individual behaved one way or the other. That's not required here. Even if the diversity push is pure PR, it's still coordinated company-wide and reflected in all their messaging. Even if it is pure PR, they still stand to gain from supporting it. > The fact that Jeff Dean hired Gebru doesn't tell you anything. It tells you quite a lot. Google is willing to hire ethicists, blacks, and women. They're willing to let them publish many papers, and go to many conventions representing Google. > Actual statistical measures, such as retention rates, percentage of work force, percentage of leadership etc. need to be consulted No, that's only to disprove the literal conspiracy theory that Google is secretly racist and is hiring black people as part of a white-supremacy program. There'd need to be something to make that likely before it's even worth investigating. As long as the most likely theory is a disgruntled employee... Did you read her papers?