4 ms·

Given the size of the "Keyboard", "Video", and "Hi-Res Video" chips, I'd wager a guess that they're ATmega microcontrollers with sticky labels on them. The kit

Given the size of the "Keyboard", "Video", and "Hi-Res Video" chips, I'd wager a guess that they're ATmega microcontrollers with sticky labels on them. The kit looks like it's taken some other shortcuts as well. The original system used an array of DRAMs, for example, not the single SRAM in this kit (which didn't exist when the Apple I was made). The original Apple II was almost entirely discrete logic -- no PALs. It'd actually be a great target for reproduction.

dhosek 6y ago
And it came with a circuit diagram of the computer.
- OJFord 6y ago
  I'm really curious about when that changed as a norm, I assume it was gradual, but there must have been some 'turning points' (said with my apologies to mathematics). I used to be keen on '80s Pioneer stereo amplifiers, the SA-8xx range if I recall correctly, (I'm younger than them) and they all came with schematics. Nothing contemporary to me did (that I had) though.
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    I'm really curious about when that changed as a norm The Commodore 64 didn't have one in the box, but IIRC, it was part of the Programmer's Reference Guide. That would have been about 1983ish. That was the last one I ever saw.
  - dhosek 6y ago
    I think the circuit diagram was no longer included with the //e but definitely was with the ][+ so for Apple., at least, that provides a boundary line.
sergpanarin 6y ago
Yes, you are right – controllers are made on ATmega328PU chips so drivers could be easily modified and uploaded to the chips via FTDI cable. E.g. you could change color of the screen
ardy42 6y ago
> The kit looks like it's taken some other shortcuts as well. The original system used an array of DRAMs, for example, not the single SRAM in this kit (which didn't exist when the Apple I was made). Are the parts still widely available enough that you could realistically build an accurate replica? If not, I wonder if parts are available that someone could still design a kit computer (without cheating) that could be assembled from discrete through-hole components with reasonable amount of skill.
peteri 6y ago
For the Apple II there are already some reproductions of the Rev 0 PCB but there are already plenty of originals (non-rev0) out there in the wild, they're not really rare enough (particularly given their use in the US schools system). I have six a ][ EuroPlus, three //es, a //c and an ITT2020 and once upon a time had a lot more. The biggest issue is the RIFA caps going in the PSU. As Apple I diy kits these are a little bit too modern for my tastes. I prefer my retro remakes to stick much more closely to the original design. The only real "fake" that I have is the PiDP 11/70 front panel which has a Raspberry PI running an emulation as it's CPU. There are a long list of modern remakes around in the retro computing community, but most stuff earlier than 1981 uses discrete components so if the CPU is still available should be cloneable.

dhosek 6y ago

And it came with a circuit diagram of the computer.

OJFord 6y ago
I'm really curious about when that changed as a norm, I assume it was gradual, but there must have been some 'turning points' (said with my apologies to mathematics). I used to be keen on '80s Pioneer stereo amplifiers, the SA-8xx range if I recall correctly, (I'm younger than them) and they all came with schematics. Nothing contemporary to me did (that I had) though.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  I'm really curious about when that changed as a norm The Commodore 64 didn't have one in the box, but IIRC, it was part of the Programmer's Reference Guide. That would have been about 1983ish. That was the last one I ever saw.
- dhosek 6y ago
  I think the circuit diagram was no longer included with the //e but definitely was with the ][+ so for Apple., at least, that provides a boundary line.

sergpanarin 6y ago

Yes, you are right – controllers are made on ATmega328PU chips so drivers could be easily modified and uploaded to the chips via FTDI cable. E.g. you could change color of the screen

ardy42 6y ago

> The kit looks like it's taken some other shortcuts as well. The original system used an array of DRAMs, for example, not the single SRAM in this kit (which didn't exist when the Apple I was made). Are the parts still widely available enough that you could realistically build an accurate replica? If not, I wonder if parts are available that someone could still design a kit computer (without cheating) that could be assembled from discrete through-hole components with reasonable amount of skill.

peteri 6y ago

For the Apple II there are already some reproductions of the Rev 0 PCB but there are already plenty of originals (non-rev0) out there in the wild, they're not really rare enough (particularly given their use in the US schools system). I have six a ][ EuroPlus, three //es, a //c and an ITT2020 and once upon a time had a lot more. The biggest issue is the RIFA caps going in the PSU. As Apple I diy kits these are a little bit too modern for my tastes. I prefer my retro remakes to stick much more closely to the original design. The only real "fake" that I have is the PiDP 11/70 front panel which has a Raspberry PI running an emulation as it's CPU. There are a long list of modern remakes around in the retro computing community, but most stuff earlier than 1981 uses discrete components so if the CPU is still available should be cloneable.