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I don't think you're wrong - I think you're misunderstanding the scale of what's about to come. We can already generate realistic video/audio content based on

I don't think you're wrong - I think you're misunderstanding the scale of what's about to come. We can already generate realistic video/audio content based on a very small sample. We're going to get custom porn in the vein of celebrity fakes, but for EVERYONE. It was limited because it used to take time/skill to make. That's changing incredibly quickly. I'm fairly conflicted about how I feel about it, too. I'd wager a non-trivial chunk of my income you'll be able to upload a photograph, pick a category, and have custom generated porn some time in the next 10-15 years.

dosethree 6y ago
Gross. Last thing porn needs is to be more fake
ajoy39 6y ago
How does this have anything to do with REAL rape and REAL stolen video and images being uploaded NOW? Just because you can theoretically, in the future, make a fake video of someone having sex doesn't mean it's in any way justifiable to allow actual video of real violent crimes on your platform now. And even when this future does happen, do people no longer have a right to their own image and likeness? Is it okay simply because it's fake?
- wruza 6y ago
  Is it okay to imagine? To think whatever you feel like to think at the moment? Rhethorical. The future that gp describes simply helps with it. Not questioning real harm to somebody ofc (as in physical/personal harm). People never had a right to their image, because it is neither unique, nor is really theirs with all these enhancements that we call “image”. Nobody can dictate you what to think. One little step from here and we’ll quite seriously discuss thought crimes.
  - ajoy39 6y ago
    There is a world of difference between what you imagine and creating a digital likeness of someone else, that will almost certainly then be distributed. Comparing the to and comparing the banning of them to thought crimes is incredibly dishonest. And yes, people do have a right to their image and likeness, those rights are protected by law.
sequoia 6y ago
What's your point? What does this have to do with PH hosting (and dragging their feet about taking down) and making money off of real rape/revenge/child porn today? And out of curiosity, what makes you think I am "misunderstanding" this? You reckon I wouldn't be mad about PH making $ off rape videos if only I knew that in 15 years we could make deepfake porn for cheap? "In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes" great but what's that got to do with the price of tea in China?
- horsawlarway 6y ago
  I mean that all the things you're upset about are going to happen at scale. Upset about revenge porn? What if it's just a really close copy of your face/body generated by machine, stitched together in a very believable fashion? You could maybe claim ownership of your likeness, but I don't think it's going to be possible to really enforce - Many people look near identical already. Or they add a mole here or there and claim - look - clearly not you! And it won't be you, but does it really matter? How do you prove it's not you to other people without stripping down? Upset about rape videos? I am too when it's a real person. I find it much harder to argue against when it's a performance (current porn) or when it's not any person at all. Who has standing in court? No one was harmed. Are you upset that someone was raped, or are you upset that someone is making money off of rape videos? Because there will be generated videos of this content, and it will absolutely be customizable to look like people want it to. Does it matter if the video is real? And removing this content won't stop rapes at all. So is it somehow worse if a real rape victim has fake rape porn made of them? If so, why? --- Basically - My point is that you're making an appeal based on a moral system that I don't think is going to survive the coming wave of generated imagery. I too have serious issues with all of the real crimes you dislike, but I don't think you can genuinely equate video content with the crime itself - They happen to be tightly coupled now, but that's going to change. This is NOT an open and shut victory here. I'm not really sure there's a victory to be had. Maybe the best we'll get is a world where even when real revenge porn is uploaded, no one will believe it's real...
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > Upset about revenge porn? What if it's just a really close copy of your face/body generated by machine, stitched together in a very believable fashion? You could maybe claim ownership of your likeness, but I don't think it's going to be possible to really enforce - Many people look near identical already. Or they add a mole here or there and claim - look - clearly not you! People make all kinds of claims all the time, including transparently self-serving ones like your example, but that doesn't mean anyone buys them. I'm pretty sure what's going to happen is the law will make it clear that porn generated from your likeness and distributed without your consent is as illegal as revenge porn. Then a bunch of people who did it anyway will go to jail and that will put a strong chilling effect on the whole thing. In most cases, the people with the motive an ability to make machine-generated porn of a particular person will be relatively easy to find.
libraryatnight 6y ago
Reminds me of the Congress movie, based on The Futurological Congress but only slightly as it goes its own direction. In it actors sign off on their image to the movie studios, the studios no longer need the actors only the rights to put them in movies. They can create them in anything they want, always young, always available. This gets extrapolated out further as the film progresses.

dosethree 6y ago

Gross. Last thing porn needs is to be more fake

ajoy39 6y ago

How does this have anything to do with REAL rape and REAL stolen video and images being uploaded NOW? Just because you can theoretically, in the future, make a fake video of someone having sex doesn't mean it's in any way justifiable to allow actual video of real violent crimes on your platform now. And even when this future does happen, do people no longer have a right to their own image and likeness? Is it okay simply because it's fake?

wruza 6y ago
Is it okay to imagine? To think whatever you feel like to think at the moment? Rhethorical. The future that gp describes simply helps with it. Not questioning real harm to somebody ofc (as in physical/personal harm). People never had a right to their image, because it is neither unique, nor is really theirs with all these enhancements that we call “image”. Nobody can dictate you what to think. One little step from here and we’ll quite seriously discuss thought crimes.
- ajoy39 6y ago
  There is a world of difference between what you imagine and creating a digital likeness of someone else, that will almost certainly then be distributed. Comparing the to and comparing the banning of them to thought crimes is incredibly dishonest. And yes, people do have a right to their image and likeness, those rights are protected by law.

sequoia 6y ago

What's your point? What does this have to do with PH hosting (and dragging their feet about taking down) and making money off of real rape/revenge/child porn today? And out of curiosity, what makes you think I am "misunderstanding" this? You reckon I wouldn't be mad about PH making $ off rape videos if only I knew that in 15 years we could make deepfake porn for cheap? "In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes" great but what's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

horsawlarway 6y ago
I mean that all the things you're upset about are going to happen at scale. Upset about revenge porn? What if it's just a really close copy of your face/body generated by machine, stitched together in a very believable fashion? You could maybe claim ownership of your likeness, but I don't think it's going to be possible to really enforce - Many people look near identical already. Or they add a mole here or there and claim - look - clearly not you! And it won't be you, but does it really matter? How do you prove it's not you to other people without stripping down? Upset about rape videos? I am too when it's a real person. I find it much harder to argue against when it's a performance (current porn) or when it's not any person at all. Who has standing in court? No one was harmed. Are you upset that someone was raped, or are you upset that someone is making money off of rape videos? Because there will be generated videos of this content, and it will absolutely be customizable to look like people want it to. Does it matter if the video is real? And removing this content won't stop rapes at all. So is it somehow worse if a real rape victim has fake rape porn made of them? If so, why? --- Basically - My point is that you're making an appeal based on a moral system that I don't think is going to survive the coming wave of generated imagery. I too have serious issues with all of the real crimes you dislike, but I don't think you can genuinely equate video content with the crime itself - They happen to be tightly coupled now, but that's going to change. This is NOT an open and shut victory here. I'm not really sure there's a victory to be had. Maybe the best we'll get is a world where even when real revenge porn is uploaded, no one will believe it's real...
- ardy42 6y ago
  > Upset about revenge porn? What if it's just a really close copy of your face/body generated by machine, stitched together in a very believable fashion? You could maybe claim ownership of your likeness, but I don't think it's going to be possible to really enforce - Many people look near identical already. Or they add a mole here or there and claim - look - clearly not you! People make all kinds of claims all the time, including transparently self-serving ones like your example, but that doesn't mean anyone buys them. I'm pretty sure what's going to happen is the law will make it clear that porn generated from your likeness and distributed without your consent is as illegal as revenge porn. Then a bunch of people who did it anyway will go to jail and that will put a strong chilling effect on the whole thing. In most cases, the people with the motive an ability to make machine-generated porn of a particular person will be relatively easy to find.

libraryatnight 6y ago

Reminds me of the Congress movie, based on The Futurological Congress but only slightly as it goes its own direction. In it actors sign off on their image to the movie studios, the studios no longer need the actors only the rights to put them in movies. They can create them in anything they want, always young, always available. This gets extrapolated out further as the film progresses.