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From the article, Pornhub only had 118 incidences of child porn over the last 3 years whereas Facebook had 84 million incidents of child porn during the same ti

From the article, Pornhub only had 118 incidences of child porn over the last 3 years whereas Facebook had 84 million incidents of child porn during the same time. So it sounds like Pornhub is taking child porn seriously, and Facebook isn't.

weeksie 6y ago
No, it sounds like a big red flag. Far more likely CP wasn't being logged.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  The PornHub count was an external study, the Facebook count was internal. So if either is effected by internal standards not counting things, its the Facebook number.
  - simias 6y ago
    Isn't Pornhub's content always public, whereas Facebook's can be segregated to smaller groups of people? If that's the case it seems that illegal content could remain undetected for far longer on FB rather than Pornhub.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Isn’t Pornhub’s content always public I don’t think so. I’m not an expert on PH, but from what I understand from other sources they have a mix of public content, open-to-all-paid-customers content, and private content that is available only to subscribers to particular channels. I don’t know if they have any content owner (well, submitter, given the level of piracy) controls on who can see content at the specific user level (whether by restricting allowed subscriptions to channels with an owner-approval process or by having content restricted by something other than subscription status.)
      - nailer 6y ago
        Content can also be only for 'friends' of the user.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
rhcom2 6y ago
It's also possible facebook users are more serious about reporting it.
matthewdgreen 6y ago
Two more likely possibilities: (1) Pornhub wasn't really checking, which is an easy way to get good stats.* (2) Many of Facebook's 84 million incidents took place on private groups or Messenger chats with small numbers of participants, whereas a single PornHub upload (counted as "1 incident") could easily reach hundreds of thousands of people. Fundamentally difficult to compare private communications networks with broadcast systems, they provide different opportunities for problematic content. * ETA: Facebook is an industry leader on CSAM scanning, and has developed both its own algorithms and media databases. So your comment that "Facebook isn't taking the issue seriously" seems like exactly the wrong diagnosis. Facebook's high numbers are a consequence of putting serious effort into this area. (Whether scanning of private messages is actually effective in stopping distribution of the content, that's something I'm more skeptical of.)
- digianarchist 6y ago
  I've personally reported child pornography on Pornhub several times that wasn't removed. Pornhub also required you to have an account to report content if I'm not mistaken.
  - stevenicr 6y ago
    Ive personally taken dozens of reports where people were 100% sure and disgusted, even from some moderators who were supposed to know more about this - and it turned out the people were all over 18. anecdotal indeed.
    - digianarchist 6y ago
      I'm sure we can find stories on both sides of this argument. I lived in South East Asia for a while and the cell phone footage of sexual interactions between middle school students is what I reported. These are girls wearing middle school uniforms embroidered with the school's name on the shirt [1] which indicates that the woman is under 18. Nobody would bother to replicate the uniform for 2 minutes of shaky cell phone footage. It was underage material. Plain and simple. [1] - https://favpng.com/png_view/t-shirt-t-shirt-school-uniforms-in-thailand-student-png/Z09ZyKyW https://favpng.com/png_view/t-shirt-t-shirt-school-uniforms-... My own ex-girlfriend's photographs were uploaded to XHamster by her ex-boyfriend along with a copy of her passport. She's 17 in the images. Took us over a year to get them taken down.
jdu9 6y ago
Here's the original press statement from Pornhub's blog: >Over the last three years, Facebook self-reported 84 million instances of child sexual abuse material. During that same period, the independent, third-party Internet Watch Foundation reported 118 incidents on Pornhub. Organizations like the IWF rely on reports, whether self-reported or not. Most people report CSAM on the website they're visiting instead of going to a third party (at least I do unless nothing is being done about it). Therefore it's not a surprise that the IWF only reported 118 incidents on Pornhub. It would be interesting to know how many instances Pornhub self-reported during the same time period since a high number is actually a good thing. I'd imagine that a sizeable chunk of the Facebook reports were quickly taken down due to being recognized by CSAM detection algorithms.
Hamuko 6y ago
Are the Facebook child porn incidents actual child porn or false positives like the napalm girl picture?
therealdrag0 6y ago
No offense but consider reading the book "How to Lie with Statistics". Very education about how these sorts of numbers can pain different pictures.

weeksie 6y ago

No, it sounds like a big red flag. Far more likely CP wasn't being logged.

dragonwriter 6y ago
The PornHub count was an external study, the Facebook count was internal. So if either is effected by internal standards not counting things, its the Facebook number.
- simias 6y ago
  Isn't Pornhub's content always public, whereas Facebook's can be segregated to smaller groups of people? If that's the case it seems that illegal content could remain undetected for far longer on FB rather than Pornhub.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Isn’t Pornhub’s content always public I don’t think so. I’m not an expert on PH, but from what I understand from other sources they have a mix of public content, open-to-all-paid-customers content, and private content that is available only to subscribers to particular channels. I don’t know if they have any content owner (well, submitter, given the level of piracy) controls on who can see content at the specific user level (whether by restricting allowed subscriptions to channels with an owner-approval process or by having content restricted by something other than subscription status.)
    - nailer 6y ago
      Content can also be only for 'friends' of the user.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

rhcom2 6y ago

It's also possible facebook users are more serious about reporting it.

matthewdgreen 6y ago

Two more likely possibilities: (1) Pornhub wasn't really checking, which is an easy way to get good stats.* (2) Many of Facebook's 84 million incidents took place on private groups or Messenger chats with small numbers of participants, whereas a single PornHub upload (counted as "1 incident") could easily reach hundreds of thousands of people. Fundamentally difficult to compare private communications networks with broadcast systems, they provide different opportunities for problematic content. * ETA: Facebook is an industry leader on CSAM scanning, and has developed both its own algorithms and media databases. So your comment that "Facebook isn't taking the issue seriously" seems like exactly the wrong diagnosis. Facebook's high numbers are a consequence of putting serious effort into this area. (Whether scanning of private messages is actually effective in stopping distribution of the content, that's something I'm more skeptical of.)

digianarchist 6y ago
I've personally reported child pornography on Pornhub several times that wasn't removed. Pornhub also required you to have an account to report content if I'm not mistaken.
- stevenicr 6y ago
  Ive personally taken dozens of reports where people were 100% sure and disgusted, even from some moderators who were supposed to know more about this - and it turned out the people were all over 18. anecdotal indeed.
  - digianarchist 6y ago
    I'm sure we can find stories on both sides of this argument. I lived in South East Asia for a while and the cell phone footage of sexual interactions between middle school students is what I reported. These are girls wearing middle school uniforms embroidered with the school's name on the shirt [1] which indicates that the woman is under 18. Nobody would bother to replicate the uniform for 2 minutes of shaky cell phone footage. It was underage material. Plain and simple. [1] - https://favpng.com/png_view/t-shirt-t-shirt-school-uniforms-in-thailand-student-png/Z09ZyKyW https://favpng.com/png_view/t-shirt-t-shirt-school-uniforms-... My own ex-girlfriend's photographs were uploaded to XHamster by her ex-boyfriend along with a copy of her passport. She's 17 in the images. Took us over a year to get them taken down.

jdu9 6y ago

Here's the original press statement from Pornhub's blog: >Over the last three years, Facebook self-reported 84 million instances of child sexual abuse material. During that same period, the independent, third-party Internet Watch Foundation reported 118 incidents on Pornhub. Organizations like the IWF rely on reports, whether self-reported or not. Most people report CSAM on the website they're visiting instead of going to a third party (at least I do unless nothing is being done about it). Therefore it's not a surprise that the IWF only reported 118 incidents on Pornhub. It would be interesting to know how many instances Pornhub self-reported during the same time period since a high number is actually a good thing. I'd imagine that a sizeable chunk of the Facebook reports were quickly taken down due to being recognized by CSAM detection algorithms.

Hamuko 6y ago

Are the Facebook child porn incidents actual child porn or false positives like the napalm girl picture?

therealdrag0 6y ago

No offense but consider reading the book "How to Lie with Statistics". Very education about how these sorts of numbers can pain different pictures.