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You cannot grow the economy without increasing energy use. For environment and to reduce global warming need to reuse and recycle and use sustainable materials,

by acd 6y ago

You cannot grow the economy without increasing energy use. For environment and to reduce global warming need to reuse and recycle and use sustainable materials, yet the boost for economy promotes buy and throw. Economist always promote growth, which grows energy use. Further economist is one science which assume a lot how the world works versus in other sciences that have to measure how the world works. I would say that Keynesian economics and the environment is not coherent. In the sense that Keynesian economics lowers the interest rate in an artificial way, which promotes economic growth. This economic growth increases consumption. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

hinkley 6y ago
> You cannot grow the economy without increasing energy use. Yes, you can. It’s called Efficiency. In the narrow sense, we are nowhere near the limits of thermodynamics. But there is also efficiency versus effectiveness. If I make a different product that better satisfices the greater needs, it may have a higher embodied energy costs than the old product, and yet still drive overall efficiency. A thinner saw blade has a smaller kerf, resulting in less raw material turned to dust. And even though the blade contains less steel, that steel is more dear. But I chop down fewer trees or dig up less stone if I use it.
- elproxy 6y ago
  Not on the right order of magnitude. We need to reduce our material consumption and energy consumption, even keeping them to the present level would not be sufficient, so for what you're talking about we'd need absolute decoupling, and that won't happen through efficiency gains, I'm willing to take that bet any day (and without even invoking Jeavons' paradox). https://eeb.org/decoupling-debunked1/ https://eeb.org/decoupling-debunked1/ PS: this was this week's latest paper that helps comprehend what exponential growth means: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-3010-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-3010-5

by acd 6y ago

hinkley 6y ago

> You cannot grow the economy without increasing energy use. Yes, you can. It’s called Efficiency. In the narrow sense, we are nowhere near the limits of thermodynamics. But there is also efficiency versus effectiveness. If I make a different product that better satisfices the greater needs, it may have a higher embodied energy costs than the old product, and yet still drive overall efficiency. A thinner saw blade has a smaller kerf, resulting in less raw material turned to dust. And even though the blade contains less steel, that steel is more dear. But I chop down fewer trees or dig up less stone if I use it.

elproxy 6y ago
Not on the right order of magnitude. We need to reduce our material consumption and energy consumption, even keeping them to the present level would not be sufficient, so for what you're talking about we'd need absolute decoupling, and that won't happen through efficiency gains, I'm willing to take that bet any day (and without even invoking Jeavons' paradox). https://eeb.org/decoupling-debunked1/ https://eeb.org/decoupling-debunked1/ PS: this was this week's latest paper that helps comprehend what exponential growth means: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-3010-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-3010-5