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On reddit thread there are some really good jokes about this [1] related to their asinine interview questions. Like: > Did they try to fix them by inverting a

On reddit thread there are some really good jokes about this [1] related to their asinine interview questions. Like: > Did they try to fix them by inverting a binary tree? >> Yeah maybe implementing a quick LRU cache on the nearest whiteboard will help them out here >> Did they try checking what shape their manhole cover is? >> Dev ops was too busy out counting all the street lights in the United States [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/kcwqij/every_single_google_service_is_currently_out/gft1x2j/ https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/kcwqij/every_s...

mav3rick 6y ago
None of these are asked in G interviews. The commenters are asinine.
- xtracto 6y ago
  No? https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en
  - mav3rick 6y ago
    Okay ? No one's discounting his achievements. What's wrong with knowing stuff about a binary tree ? Is ignorance a badge of honor now ?
    - rococode 6y ago
      Yeah, nothing wrong with not having memorized how to do that - it's certainly not often useful in practice. But if you're given the definitions and a couple minutes to figure it out (which, in an interview, you are), and you actually can't come up with the 10 lines of code to do it, maybe that question is working as intended after all...
      - reallydontask 6y ago
        > But if you're given the definitions and a couple minutes to figure it out (which, in an interview, you are), and you actually can't come up with the 10 lines of code to do it, maybe that question is working as intended after all... or maybe the person struggles to work things out in an extremely stressful situation I speak as somebody that finds interviews Extremely stressful and if working there is regularly my interview levels of stress then please do reject me.
        mav3rick 6y ago
        Don't you think actors audition for parts ? Is that stressful ? Does preparation help ? 300k+ paying jobs will have demand. With that comes pressure.
  - vacheron 6y ago
    This story seems like a bad example of a false negative. There were claims by Google insiders that Max was given a particularly easy interview as a formality. I am by no means a brilliant programmer and also rusty with algorithms, but given the structure and question, I would be surprised if most people couldn't figure out how to invert a binary tree within a matter of minutes. Max himself later opened up[0] and admitted to being difficult to work with. It is entirely likely that he was rejected based on his personality and not his ability. As someone who contributed to Homebrew many years ago I would not be surprised if this was the case. In their own words: "I am often a dick, I am often difficult, I often don’t know computer science". I am not sure why any company would want to hire someone like that and put the culture of the team in jeopardy. [0] - https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-logic-behind-Google-rejecting-Max-Howell-the-author-of-Homebrew-for-not-being-able-to-invert-a-binary-tree/answer/Max-Howell?share=100e0bb6&srid=unBJ9 https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-logic-behind-Google-rejectin...
    - mav3rick 6y ago
      Don't worry they won't reply to this. Doesn't fit their narrative. Learning CS basics just isn't sexy enough for hacker news. Why learn anything over this.setState in React.
      - xtracto 6y ago
        I love your response because I have a PhD in Computer Science. I do LeetCode as and CodeWars problems in the mornings for fun (I like coding and helps me avoid getting rusty) and I have been a hiring manager for over 10 years. But yeah, other than the "sexiness" of CS concepts it's only because of the "narrative" we want to push.
        mav3rick 6y ago
        So you do think Leetcode is useful ? What's up with the flex ? Congratulations on the PhD and job, I guess ?. Looks like you could definitely invert a binary tree.
- abstractbarista 6y ago
  Not necessarily true. Some of these most certainly have been.
- mav3rick 6y ago
  None of you have taken interviews at G. There's a strict edict to discard these questions. "Dev ops was too busy out counting all the street lights in the United States" If it was a Consulting interview any one would have gotten in. Thankfully no one asks these at G.
vacheron 6y ago
AFAIK (as someone who does not work at Google), "brain teaser" questions have not been asked at Google for almost a decade. Every time I see complaints like this I can't help but think the posters have a chip on their shoulder from being rejected by Google or a similarly selective company. It's never a commentary on any fundamental issues with these types of interview questions and no one ever comes up with a better process that is equally scaleable and effective for hiring generalists. In my experience interviewing with dozens of small, medium and large companies, the vast majority of technical roles require these types of questions now. These come off as criticisms against Google specifically for asking hard variants of these questions. I don't personally have any issue with companies asking questions like these as long as they don't simply look for "a correct and optimal solution coded up perfectly whilst under stress in under 30 minutes", but rather the process of solving the problem.
- gizmondo 6y ago
  If we're talking about FAANG, I don't believe that they really care about "the process of solving the problem". If you don't come up with a close-to-optimal solution in about 5 minutes, you're in trouble - there will be competitors who are better prepared and thus can. Solving algorithmic questions is a very trainable skill, after all.
  - psully 6y ago
    Funnily enough, this response is exactly what the parent seems to be talking about. FAANG originated as a stock term and not as a grouping of companies with similar hiring processes. i.e. Interviews at Netflix are generally domain specific. Likewise, Amazon isn't the same as Apple isn't the same as Google. > If you don't come up with a close-to-optimal solution in about 5 minutes Disingenuously hyperbolic. I was only given a single problem to solve in each of my 45 minute "coding rounds" at Google and Facebook. If you approach these interviews like a competitive coding competition you will absolutely not get the job. By that I mean arriving at a non-optimal solution as fast as possible while writing messy code and not explaining your thought process. Not to mention that senior roles involve an increasing number of interviews that focus on design rather than algorithmic questions. This all seems like nonsense coming from individuals who are (understandably or not) frustrated at an interview process that doesn't align with their strengths.

mav3rick 6y ago

None of these are asked in G interviews. The commenters are asinine.

xtracto 6y ago
No? https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en
- mav3rick 6y ago
  Okay ? No one's discounting his achievements. What's wrong with knowing stuff about a binary tree ? Is ignorance a badge of honor now ?
  - rococode 6y ago
    Yeah, nothing wrong with not having memorized how to do that - it's certainly not often useful in practice. But if you're given the definitions and a couple minutes to figure it out (which, in an interview, you are), and you actually can't come up with the 10 lines of code to do it, maybe that question is working as intended after all...
    - reallydontask 6y ago
      > But if you're given the definitions and a couple minutes to figure it out (which, in an interview, you are), and you actually can't come up with the 10 lines of code to do it, maybe that question is working as intended after all... or maybe the person struggles to work things out in an extremely stressful situation I speak as somebody that finds interviews Extremely stressful and if working there is regularly my interview levels of stress then please do reject me.
      - mav3rick 6y ago
        Don't you think actors audition for parts ? Is that stressful ? Does preparation help ? 300k+ paying jobs will have demand. With that comes pressure.
- vacheron 6y ago
  This story seems like a bad example of a false negative. There were claims by Google insiders that Max was given a particularly easy interview as a formality. I am by no means a brilliant programmer and also rusty with algorithms, but given the structure and question, I would be surprised if most people couldn't figure out how to invert a binary tree within a matter of minutes. Max himself later opened up[0] and admitted to being difficult to work with. It is entirely likely that he was rejected based on his personality and not his ability. As someone who contributed to Homebrew many years ago I would not be surprised if this was the case. In their own words: "I am often a dick, I am often difficult, I often don’t know computer science". I am not sure why any company would want to hire someone like that and put the culture of the team in jeopardy. [0] - https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-logic-behind-Google-rejecting-Max-Howell-the-author-of-Homebrew-for-not-being-able-to-invert-a-binary-tree/answer/Max-Howell?share=100e0bb6&srid=unBJ9 https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-logic-behind-Google-rejectin...
  - mav3rick 6y ago
    Don't worry they won't reply to this. Doesn't fit their narrative. Learning CS basics just isn't sexy enough for hacker news. Why learn anything over this.setState in React.
    - xtracto 6y ago
      I love your response because I have a PhD in Computer Science. I do LeetCode as and CodeWars problems in the mornings for fun (I like coding and helps me avoid getting rusty) and I have been a hiring manager for over 10 years. But yeah, other than the "sexiness" of CS concepts it's only because of the "narrative" we want to push.
      - mav3rick 6y ago
        So you do think Leetcode is useful ? What's up with the flex ? Congratulations on the PhD and job, I guess ?. Looks like you could definitely invert a binary tree.
abstractbarista 6y ago
Not necessarily true. Some of these most certainly have been.
mav3rick 6y ago
None of you have taken interviews at G. There's a strict edict to discard these questions. "Dev ops was too busy out counting all the street lights in the United States" If it was a Consulting interview any one would have gotten in. Thankfully no one asks these at G.

vacheron 6y ago

AFAIK (as someone who does not work at Google), "brain teaser" questions have not been asked at Google for almost a decade. Every time I see complaints like this I can't help but think the posters have a chip on their shoulder from being rejected by Google or a similarly selective company. It's never a commentary on any fundamental issues with these types of interview questions and no one ever comes up with a better process that is equally scaleable and effective for hiring generalists. In my experience interviewing with dozens of small, medium and large companies, the vast majority of technical roles require these types of questions now. These come off as criticisms against Google specifically for asking hard variants of these questions. I don't personally have any issue with companies asking questions like these as long as they don't simply look for "a correct and optimal solution coded up perfectly whilst under stress in under 30 minutes", but rather the process of solving the problem.

gizmondo 6y ago
If we're talking about FAANG, I don't believe that they really care about "the process of solving the problem". If you don't come up with a close-to-optimal solution in about 5 minutes, you're in trouble - there will be competitors who are better prepared and thus can. Solving algorithmic questions is a very trainable skill, after all.
- psully 6y ago
  Funnily enough, this response is exactly what the parent seems to be talking about. FAANG originated as a stock term and not as a grouping of companies with similar hiring processes. i.e. Interviews at Netflix are generally domain specific. Likewise, Amazon isn't the same as Apple isn't the same as Google. > If you don't come up with a close-to-optimal solution in about 5 minutes Disingenuously hyperbolic. I was only given a single problem to solve in each of my 45 minute "coding rounds" at Google and Facebook. If you approach these interviews like a competitive coding competition you will absolutely not get the job. By that I mean arriving at a non-optimal solution as fast as possible while writing messy code and not explaining your thought process. Not to mention that senior roles involve an increasing number of interviews that focus on design rather than algorithmic questions. This all seems like nonsense coming from individuals who are (understandably or not) frustrated at an interview process that doesn't align with their strengths.