3 ms·

I’d be interested in knowing what qualifies as advertising in this hypothetical. Web banners? Sponsored content? Trade shows? Sales rep stopping by and buying

I’d be interested in knowing what qualifies as advertising in this hypothetical. Web banners? Sponsored content? Trade shows? Sales rep stopping by and buying lunch and talking about a product? Clothing with logos? Hacker News? There are lots of ways to capture people’s attention to build awareness of your business that probably technically fall under advertising but would be quite difficult to regulate in any meaningful way.

throwaway13337 6y ago
The formalized ad business would be a good place to start. At least you'd kill the ad supported business model because clarity of the transaction required.
- jbay808 6y ago
  I think the GP's question is not so much "where does it start", as "where does it end".
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    Though a good starting place is helpful. We can figure out where to stop as we go along.
marcus_holmes 6y ago
"Being paid by someone to publish content that mentions their product", I guess, as a first draft? So, in your examples: Web banners: yes, Sponsored content: yes, Trade shows: no, Sales rep stopping by: no, clothing with logos: yes if the logo isn't the brand of the clothing itself, Hacker News: I have no idea how this site is funded. And I don't even vaguely pretend to know where we should draw the line. I just think it should not be where it currently is.
- stevesearer 6y ago
  Paying a 3rd party to spread a message or information would be an interesting way to define it. In that scenario things like classifieds, craigslist, and job boards would all get the ax too. I like to think about these issues because I make a living selling advertising on my website. We try to have use good practices, have the ads be high quality, targeted toward the content as opposed to the user. On the other hand, I live in a city which does not allow billboard advertising (Santa Barbara, California) and I do enjoy it in comparison to cities with many billboards.
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    Good point: the things you mention are definitely (explicitly) advertising, but also not evil. Maybe a "except in the cases where users/readers/individuals can create adverts, and the entire publication is explicitly devoted to such adverts" clause as well. I'm only a business grad, not a lawyer, so I expect it can be framed better than this.
grishka 6y ago
I think it's pretty clear. Advertising is when someone pays to pass to you any information you didn't intentionally ask for. Banners and sponsored content obviously are advertising. Your friend telling you about some cool product is not advertising because he wasn't paid for that.
- throwaway2245 6y ago
  > Your friend telling you about some cool product is not advertising because he wasn't paid for that. I often get told unpaid by my friend about cool product because: a) my friend wants to be viewed as a trustworthy influencer (trustworthy to ad execs) and hopes or expects to be paid later, b) my friend is unconsciously parroting marketing speak from advertising they have seen, neither of which are particularly helpful to me. Stopping these cases would be an additional benefit of banning (or heavily taxing) paid advertising, I would expect it to be somewhat self-regulated.
rolph 6y ago
I dont know why it continues, but when someone says or does something that says "im not interested in ads" the response is to hook around that and force it upon them. This is how you create hostility toward your product, not desirability.
- stevesearer 6y ago
  Can you elaborate more? I am uncertain if you are saying that I was engaging in the behavior you are describing or if you are describing behavior you have observed regularly in discussions like these. My question was meant more to think about what constitutes an advertisement for the purposes of a hypothetical "50% tax on all advertising revenue" proposed by the parent comment.
  - rolph 6y ago
    no not you but digital advertising in general. i think this is a misfire on my part and should be a reply to [Marcus] up thread.
    - rolph 6y ago
      as far as the elaboration part i could if you like but in general, a yes means yes , and no means nothing i want to hear so ill act like i heard yes, attitude does not make new customers, but rather anticustomers. This creates a vector toward hostility rather than adoption.
      - marcus_holmes 6y ago
        I've heard this so often in marketing talks - "it takes 5 touches to make a sale, so that's 4 'no's' you've got to get through to get a 'yes'". Makes me sick. But it clearly works, even though we hate it. So I think the goal is to make it not work. Like any other antisocial behaviour that we'd like to tone down in our society - tax the shit out of it.

throwaway13337 6y ago

The formalized ad business would be a good place to start. At least you'd kill the ad supported business model because clarity of the transaction required.

jbay808 6y ago
I think the GP's question is not so much "where does it start", as "where does it end".
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  Though a good starting place is helpful. We can figure out where to stop as we go along.

marcus_holmes 6y ago

"Being paid by someone to publish content that mentions their product", I guess, as a first draft? So, in your examples: Web banners: yes, Sponsored content: yes, Trade shows: no, Sales rep stopping by: no, clothing with logos: yes if the logo isn't the brand of the clothing itself, Hacker News: I have no idea how this site is funded. And I don't even vaguely pretend to know where we should draw the line. I just think it should not be where it currently is.

stevesearer 6y ago
Paying a 3rd party to spread a message or information would be an interesting way to define it. In that scenario things like classifieds, craigslist, and job boards would all get the ax too. I like to think about these issues because I make a living selling advertising on my website. We try to have use good practices, have the ads be high quality, targeted toward the content as opposed to the user. On the other hand, I live in a city which does not allow billboard advertising (Santa Barbara, California) and I do enjoy it in comparison to cities with many billboards.
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  Good point: the things you mention are definitely (explicitly) advertising, but also not evil. Maybe a "except in the cases where users/readers/individuals can create adverts, and the entire publication is explicitly devoted to such adverts" clause as well. I'm only a business grad, not a lawyer, so I expect it can be framed better than this.

grishka 6y ago

I think it's pretty clear. Advertising is when someone pays to pass to you any information you didn't intentionally ask for. Banners and sponsored content obviously are advertising. Your friend telling you about some cool product is not advertising because he wasn't paid for that.

throwaway2245 6y ago
> Your friend telling you about some cool product is not advertising because he wasn't paid for that. I often get told unpaid by my friend about cool product because: a) my friend wants to be viewed as a trustworthy influencer (trustworthy to ad execs) and hopes or expects to be paid later, b) my friend is unconsciously parroting marketing speak from advertising they have seen, neither of which are particularly helpful to me. Stopping these cases would be an additional benefit of banning (or heavily taxing) paid advertising, I would expect it to be somewhat self-regulated.

rolph 6y ago

I dont know why it continues, but when someone says or does something that says "im not interested in ads" the response is to hook around that and force it upon them. This is how you create hostility toward your product, not desirability.

stevesearer 6y ago
Can you elaborate more? I am uncertain if you are saying that I was engaging in the behavior you are describing or if you are describing behavior you have observed regularly in discussions like these. My question was meant more to think about what constitutes an advertisement for the purposes of a hypothetical "50% tax on all advertising revenue" proposed by the parent comment.
- rolph 6y ago
  no not you but digital advertising in general. i think this is a misfire on my part and should be a reply to [Marcus] up thread.
  - rolph 6y ago
    as far as the elaboration part i could if you like but in general, a yes means yes , and no means nothing i want to hear so ill act like i heard yes, attitude does not make new customers, but rather anticustomers. This creates a vector toward hostility rather than adoption.
    - marcus_holmes 6y ago
      I've heard this so often in marketing talks - "it takes 5 touches to make a sale, so that's 4 'no's' you've got to get through to get a 'yes'". Makes me sick. But it clearly works, even though we hate it. So I think the goal is to make it not work. Like any other antisocial behaviour that we'd like to tone down in our society - tax the shit out of it.